Our Thoughts on Playoffs Day 3

First Riot Post
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kevin13dante

Junior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrix View Post
btw, I'm a CLG.eu fan.. <3 Froggen. So don't say I'm a WE supporter
Firstly, someone who is unsure of their own arguments makes assumptions of what the other will say. So please do not act like I'm going to call a witch hunt on you because you have a differing opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrix View Post
Ok, by your logic of the situation, why doesn't CLG.eu forfeit the second match, '"in respect of the game"

You only say whats convenient. But the fact of the matter is, WE was winning game 2...
This is what is known as contextomy. You're taking part of what I'm saying, deliberately not using all of it, in order to make my point seem to accept a more broader range. Personally, I find such tactics in, what should be, a neutral discussion, actually disgusting. You want to make convince me, don't try to twist my own words around.

As for what you were addressing, I am pointing out that, as according to what I had seen, they were down to very little remaining structures, facing a baron-buffed team, and were lacking in gold. There is a point when you're still in the game, and another point that you're boned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrix View Post
You only say whats convenient.
That right there, I don't even need to say it do I? This is just throwing out the 'you're a hypocrite' and 'your argument is invalid'. Congrats, you've reminded me of any politician running for office slandering their opponent because they don't want to actually hold a discussion.

If you want to convince me of your viewpoint, don't use rhetoric; use dialect.
----
Also, heading to go get something to eat; won't be responding, should there be any replies, sorry. Waited like 10 minutes though, right xD? Night.


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R3SBalron

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Junior Member

10-09-2012

Obviously the investigation on Frost/TSM game is still ongoing, and while i dont expect to see the results on that investigation tonight i was wondering what would happen if Frost was found to have cheated. Not speculating or suggesting that they did... as i am a big TSM fan and very biased. But i simply want to know how it would be handled if at the end of the investigation it was found Frost did indeed cheat.

P.S. you guys are handling this whole thing great, and Super Kudo's to you Mr. Redbeard for all your time and effort in keepin the fans informed.


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Hekatonkhieres

Junior Member

10-09-2012

And surprise surprise, the "investigation" goes nowhere, discovers nothing, nothing is done except for putting another nail into the credibility of LOL as an 'e-sport'.


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Ad Victoriam

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBeard View Post
I previously announced we’d be conducting a new best of 3 between Team WE and CLG.eu. However, given new feedback and considerations, as well as conversations with both teams, we’ve reversed that decision. WE and CLG will be concluding the one remaining game of their best of 3 match on Wednesday.

The winner of this quarterfinal will have to face intense competition in the Semifinal match that same day, and given the late start time necessitated by event preparations, a new best of three could result in some very late games. We’re concerned about fatigue and a poor experience for all teams and players involved. Additionally, the two games on the scoreboard in the existing best of 3 completed without incident, so we believe they should stand.

Both teams are informed of the new decision and are practicing accordingly. We know some of you were looking forward to a new best of 3, but I hope you’ll understand why Riot has chosen to resume the existing match.
Doesn't feel right at all.


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Dazrix

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin13dante View Post
I'm just laying out my opinions; not expecting any feedback even, let alone anything to be done because of my thoughts.

1. We should all just admit that WE was about to loose game 3 and were even falling behind in game 4; they should, out of respect for the game and CLG, yield that. They should NOT accept the extra chance because there's some extra money on the line; it's disgusting and serves only to justify that they care more about the money than having good sportsmanship.

2. AZF and TSM have a much more delicate situation. I won't take sides on the matter, but I will say the evidence from both sides brings enough of questions that another game COULD be suggested; if AZF shut out TSM two games in a row, they shouldn't have that much of an issue reaffirming that it was them playing by skill and nothing but.

Anyone upset, just log off and go cry to your parents that someone has differing opinions that you.
this is effectively your arguement, no, my arguement previous still retorted your arguement using the facts of the situation. It also showed the sportsman ship that WE had over CLG when WE let CLG repick, but CLG did not allow WE to repick. So, WE would have won game 2, reset benefitted CLG. Game 3 - CLG wouldn't let WE repick - CLG had the advantage.. Also - a team fight had not happened in game 3, not a single team fight in 57 mins... First team fight and disconnects everywhere. So, yes, they should rematch the third match. Now, are you trying to take the high road as though you didn't start this pointless arguement as a narrow minded person?

Furthermore - No, I don't want the arguement used under the pretenses I'm a WE supporter, when I'm infact a CLGeu supporter. It's got nothing to do with your arguement, you could have chosen to ignore this, but you've reduced your self to slandering my arguement, the same thing you're arguing I'm doing to invalidate your arguement.

Dude, seriously, the facts speak for themselves, it just happens you've managed to erase game two from your brain. Playing out the third match or even a totally new Bo3, is the fairest solution for CLGeu vs TSM.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrix View Post
Ok, by your logic of the situation, why doesn't CLG.eu forfeit the second match, '"in respect of the game"

You only say whats convenient. But the fact of the matter is, WE was winning game 2... they also allowed CLG.eu to repick their champs.. Whilst CLG.eu did NOT allow WE to repick their champs. So.... lets just give the whole set to WE.

btw, I'm a CLG.eu fan.. <3 Froggen. So don't say I'm a WE supporter - I'm just stating the facts, because NA/EU players seem to forget that their teams were also granted a second chance, etc.. etc..
CLG.eu was not out of game 2. In fact, the advantage that they had in game 2 was smaller than they had at a few points throughout the remake. CLG.eu thrives when behind. That's where they get their bread and butter. Also, in game 2, CLG.eu wasn't down 2 dragons + 2 barons + 10k gold + an inhib tower + the rest of the towers... the two games are not comparable.


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Dazrix

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3SBalron View Post
Obviously the investigation on Frost/TSM game is still ongoing, and while i dont expect to see the results on that investigation tonight i was wondering what would happen if Frost was found to have cheated. Not speculating or suggesting that they did... as i am a big TSM fan and very biased. But i simply want to know how it would be handled if at the end of the investigation it was found Frost did indeed cheat.

P.S. you guys are handling this whole thing great, and Super Kudo's to you Mr. Redbeard for all your time and effort in keepin the fans informed.
I believe nothing is going to happen. Looking over the evidence impartially, both teams were looking at minimap for what ever reason. To concretely come down on AZF, would mean they'd have to do the same against TSM and other teams, such as WE. But in reality, that'd throw their whole tournament out of whack.

Truth of the matter, is unless they have something hard evidence to say AZF cheated, then it's impossible for them to determine if it was accidental or deliberate. In which case, I'm sure it was accidental, since no one in their right minds would look at the screen in attempt to cheat. TSM were offered a remake of the game at the alledged time of the incident - they ran their strategy anyway, despite having concerns. TSM themselves are also confused as to whether they call them blatant cheaters or whether they just got out played.. As Regi has produced three seperate statements.. First was post match 'we got outplayed, we didn't prepare enough' second was 'it could have been an accident, and I believe it was, but I think he did see' and the third 'he cheated'

So realistically, I think TSM are just bitter about the outcome. They were both great matches, and I would have become a TSM fan if it wasn't for this debarkle end game. TSM is always clouded with shiftiness just like Dignitas.

I'm not an AZF fan either. But TSM were given the ability to rectify the situation, at the time of the situation.... They made the 'wrong' (lack of a better word) choice and now want the alternative choice to see if it works better.

Also, why is it not a bigger deal that AZF got screwed from the whole tournament setup? It's obviously a poorly structured tournament setup when they could have simply just hired someone that knows wtf they're doing with tournaments and seeding, then to just wing it and screw AZF in the first place.


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Dazrix

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkhon View Post
CLG.eu was not out of game 2. In fact, the advantage that they had in game 2 was smaller than they had at a few points throughout the remake. CLG.eu thrives when behind. That's where they get their bread and butter. Also, in game 2, CLG.eu wasn't down 2 dragons + 2 barons + 10k gold + an inhib tower + the rest of the towers... the two games are not comparable.
It is when in game 3, there was not a single team fight for 57 minutes. Gold doesn't account for everything. Thus, that team fight, at 57 minutes, if WE won it convincingly - the game was over. At 57 minutes, it didn't matter who won - the game was over. Anyone that has played a 57 minute game, understands this.. A baron is great for poking and pushing, but it's buff is only half as good when it's a full blown committed team fight.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrix View Post
It is when in game 3, there was not a single team fight for 57 minutes. Gold doesn't account for everything. Thus, that team fight, at 57 minutes, if WE won it convincingly - the game was over. At 57 minutes, it didn't matter who won - the game was over. Anyone that has played a 57 minute game, understands this.. A baron is great for poking and pushing, but it's buff is only half as good when it's a full blown committed team fight.
Thats not true. There were team fights. The team fights didn't end in 5 people dead, but the team fights had happened. There were two different times where WE walked away with only two up, and that prevented CLG from being able to push through to victory, but it happened.

In game 2, there also had not been a team fight. The difference between the lead in game 2, and in the deciding game, was that CLG.eu was actually pushing through for the win. They had complete map vision as opposed to 0 from WE, they had Baron buff... unless WE actually straight up aces them, the best they can do is stabilize. CLG had that game in hand and it wasn't even close.


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George MichaeI

Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkhon View Post
CLG.eu was not out of game 2. In fact, the advantage that they had in game 2 was smaller than they had at a few points throughout the remake. CLG.eu thrives when behind. That's where they get their bread and butter. Also, in game 2, CLG.eu wasn't down 2 dragons + 2 barons + 10k gold + an inhib tower + the rest of the towers... the two games are not comparable.
There are different kinds of rhythms and deficits. The type of deficit that eu had in game 2 was one that was gonna snowball very hard against them with how WE was playing... their jungler was extremely behind and it was going to take some pretty extraordinary circumstances for clg.eu to be able to fight vs WE.

When trying to measure these things between 2 different games... there are so many factors that we don't know the true value of... when does composition A become better than composition B, at what exact point? What kinda deficit can it come back from.

Some comps are gonna struggle lategame and then come back and shine late game... some are gonna snowball hard and fast and be impossible to stop if you let them.

The game clg was winning that was remade was obviously closer to being over and was clearly in clg.eu's favor... but even if it is 99.99999% in their favor, if it is a dc it is a dc, and is the same as the first game that needed to be remade.

You can say clg.eu had a larger deficit in the first game they won... but it involves different compositions...