Riot's BIGGEST mistake with world playoffs

First Riot Post
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Dr Jimmy

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Just to throw my $0.02 in... I teach at a major university and have had the job of determining if cheating is occurring or not. I pulled 3 screen captures that, to me, strongly suggest AF did cheat. Additionally, the WE support player very clearly cheated. Looking at the minimap when the crowd got loud before face checking a bush that was just prior to invading enemy jungle to deep ward... yeah, pretty obvious.
I have included time stamps, it is during the pause of the AF/TSM game. I'm not a TSM fan boy.

http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...hy/AF1JPEG.jpg
Very clearly is looking up and right, which is where the minimap is. Again, this is during the pause of the game with TSM having their top gank strategy.

http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...hy/AF2JPEG.jpg
He looks directly at the camera just after looking at the minimap. Students that cheat will almost invariably look directly at whatever/whoever could catch them cheating to see if they were seen.

http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...hy/AF3JPEG.jpg
Finally, just after that point, he dominates the conversation after previously not saying anything. There is little point to cheating at a team game unless you can let your teammates know what's happening.

It seems like I'll have to change my photobucket settings to allow larger pictures to show up. Additionally, in the pictures you can clearly see a teammate that looks at the camera while he is talking (another indicator that they are being told ill-gotten information). The player on the end also smiles during this time period (not that that is crazy indicative of anything).


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Food4Thought

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elenia Andras View Post
I'm so confused. Are you saying that you're American and what's wrong with you is that you only read what you bolded/italic'd/underlined because you're too lazy to read more than that?

For me, what's wrong is that you're automatically jumping to assume that I'm an American who thinks that Romney/Obama will be good for the country. Such a gullible person XD
mm thats not being gullible, but nice try.

Maybe I could have phrased it better, for example "you are an example as to why America is so F'd up"...

Not lazy, just realize when it is pointless to read on.
The "ref" stated that he and others kept good eye on everyone, and told them they were supposed to stay looking forward even during pauses...yet they let ALOT of **** fly...or they wern't doing their jobs...or they were lieing to the community with that post. take your pick


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Overlord NA

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotTiza View Post
As the lead referee for this event, let me respond.

We keep a constant watch on all the players on stage at all times. We have cameras as well as live people walking onto stage to keep tabs in everything. All players are told that they need to remain sitting, facing forward, and with headphones on at all times, including during pauses. I can personally confirm that no WE player looked at the minimap at any point during the match.

Players make eye contact on stage fairly regularly. Team WE in particular talked directly to each other a good amount. A single, limited camera view with a field of a few feet is not enough to determine where a someone is looking on a cross-stage scale. We directly monitor players to assure this is not the case, and maintained due diligence at all times over the course of the event.

Say what you like about WE's gameplay, but they did not jeopardize their chances of staying in the tournament by looking at the minimap (EDIT for clarity- because they didn't look at the minimap. If they had looked at the minimap, it would have jeopardized their standing in the tournament. I am not, in any way, condoning any player who gains an unfair advantage from any means).
Good job guys. Down vote a Riot employee who was THERE WATCHING. While you downvoting losers are at home, broke and fat ass hell screen capping for hours.


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Uncle Muffles

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

Bump for great justice.


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Spike Lance

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elenia Andras View Post
So now you're 100% just assuming that he cheated all those times?
So you´re assuming he have so much map awareness that he goes ALONE into enemy jungle WITHOUT vision, ANY vision, of the enemy team anf this is normal pro palyer behaviour? Especially in a game that every ward was worth more than a Baron at some point?


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Indekkusutaku

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elenia Andras View Post
His response has any validity because he's the lead referee, he was on stage keeping an eye on the players along with his team of referees. On top of that, I'd expect referees to also have access to player audio along with translators who could confirm/deny if there was any cheating going on. A single player peeking would have no effect to the outcome of the action happening on the screen without being able to relay the message to his teammates by voice chat.

I also think that people are blowing things out of proportion for the so called peeking.

In WE vs CLG.eu, that WE player "peeked" for less than a second, and there was nothing happening on the map whatsoever. I don't think people could grasp the positions of everyone just by peeking for a split second, and there was nothing to show that they received any advantage from peeking. There was nothing going on whatsoever during that time.

In Azubu Frost vs TSM, Woong "peeked" for less than a second as well. This time there was a red ping, but we don't know whether it was him who pinged or not, and for what reason the ping was made. Also, Frost only sent Jayce and Blitz top for a 2v4 while the other 3 players stayed out of it (2 in mid and Woong himself bottom). Had Frost really cheated, they should've changed their strategy and sent 5 top to beat TSM 5v4 or abandon top to invade TSM's bottom jungle. Yet, they stuck with the 2-2-1 spread out formation despite "knowing" TSM sent 4 people top.

Also note that when the game was paused, Reginald/Dyrus informed the referee that he could see the minimap. What does this mean? This means that at least Reginald/Dyrus (and maybe more TSM players too?) for sure knew that Frost went with 2-2-1 formation. So in a sense, it could be said that it was "fair" that both sides "saw" the minimaps. Yes, TSM lost out that their level 1 gank failed. But Frost also not take advantage by turning that situation for their benefit.

The latest Reginald video on Youtube said that Chaox saw Frost players looking at the minimap during the pause, then talked to each other to discuss. If this was indeed the case, then what was the red ping for? Did Frost need to ping after 10-minute pause and discussion?

Make no mistake, I don't want to see any cheating happening myself either, but I felt that people jumped to conclusion too easily. Shady, yes. Cheating, maybe. Guilty, not quite yet.

Personally, I just wish Riot would've put the the players in soundproof booths just like in OGN tournaments. I don't understand why soundproof booths aren't used in every single tournament. The outdoor venue caused problems with the sunlight, potential chance for players to listen to outside noise/commentary/etc, as well as potential cheating views for minimap and the big screen.
Allow me to address your comments in reverse order, split by their paragraphs or logical end points.

I agree soundproof booths would have solved this whole problem before it got started

Im a glad you feel that way, a lot of posters post saying who care if they cheated, they would have won anyways, or other comment that completely miss the point that cheating is terrible even if it doesn't help you. As far As jumping to conclusions I've been on the forum for this issue for a pretty long time and seen pretty much every argument either way, I doubt I am being to hasty in my assesment, I still am murky about the Azubu cheating, I have seen the video, was even fortunate enough to have it lag right at the time where the cheat is said to occur and got to watch it near frame-by-frame, and it certainly looks like he is cheating, but that is only one camera angle so I remain murky on the issue.

Not being a member of frost I cant give a 100 on this but I could see them avoiding incriminating themselves, by not talking about it, I think the ping is strange why would they ping there, but that's it, all of my murky belinin ga member of frost cheated comes from his head looking like it was pointed straight at the minimap/big-screen.

Didn't I just get done two paragraphs ago feeling grateful that you recognized cheating is bad even if it means nothing in the end? Perhaps I spoke too soon, but still, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

This paragraph too, man...

Ahh finally we come to his validity, he lost his validity as head referee when he commented on a situation claiming he/his staff knew everything when it was obvious he didn't, he claimed we only cited one angle, and that is still just as clearly not the case, the whole lets delete the post thing didn't help, but that may not have been him.


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NoneYa Bizznezz

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Junior Member

10-07-2012

lol bunch of sore losers


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lolLuckylol

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

bump, i want anotherRIOT reply not happy with this one (sorry this smells dirty)


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Mr Pyotr

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Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotTiza View Post
As the lead referee for this event, let me respond.

We keep a constant watch on all the players on stage at all times. We have cameras as well as live people walking onto stage to keep tabs in everything. All players are told that they need to remain sitting, facing forward, and with headphones on at all times, including during pauses. I can personally confirm that no WE player looked at the minimap at any point during the match.

Players make eye contact on stage fairly regularly. Team WE in particular talked directly to each other a good amount. A single, limited camera view with a field of a few feet is not enough to determine where a someone is looking on a cross-stage scale. We directly monitor players to assure this is not the case, and maintained due diligence at all times over the course of the event.

Say what you like about WE's gameplay, but they did not jeopardize their chances of staying in the tournament by looking at the minimap (EDIT for clarity- because they didn't look at the minimap. If they had looked at the minimap, it would have jeopardized their standing in the tournament. I am not, in any way, condoning any player who gains an unfair advantage from any means).
Apology? Telling your fans they are wrong and it didn't happen when there are VODs and screenshots of them caught red handed


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Demando

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Asian cheaters -_-