Thank You CLG, Dignitas, and TSM

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Balfire

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Even if it was financially possible (which it isn't) I'd rather be 10th at Worlds and make a decent living/have a life than be number 1 and live in 1 room with 12 other men and a Ramen diet....

I can't take anything you say seriously.


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Demosthenes

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHomo View Post
oh i'm sorry, here i thought "sponsor" meant "gives people money"

i must have been wrong somewhere in my assumptions...
Computer peripherals and a few thousand bucks really don't go far with a landlord. You are vastly overestimating what sponsors pay NA teams. The biggest NA teams have, from the start, made most of their money off streaming, which is part of the reason they have less time to practice.

And, maybe you didn't really grasp it when I said it before but, you're not allowed to live 12 people in one loft in north america. The land lord would kick you out.


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spikegabriel

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHomo View Post
'murica doesn't have the dedication to put in 16 hour days
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...dals-in-london

LOL must suck to be you


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spikegabriel

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHomo View Post
again, we're talking about a 500 sq ft apartment in podunk nebraska, not a 1800 2-level designer penthouse in new york.

you're a moron
No, he isn't a moron, you are. You've simply never lived out on your own before. Once you do you will realize how much we spend on things. It's not just our rent, we have to pay utilities, we have to pay for things like toilet paper. All of those little things your mom provides for you, out there in the real world we have to provide for ourselves. If we don't then we don't get the option to ask mom, instead it means we have to go without.

That's what you aren't getting. Once you move out on your own you will see it first hand.


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Traithan

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
Wow.

Ok kids, let Grandpa Demosthenes explain the world.

Here's the coles notes:

Esports are more popular in Asia and Europe. As a result, sponsors will pay players more due to their brands getting more exposure. As a result, players can spend more time practicing the game in order to put up good showings in tournaments to give their sponsors greater exposure.

North American players are not less skilled, or less devoted. The fact is that North American players currently make their income in different ways. They can not devote that much time to playing and practicing the game, because sponsors are not willing to pay them enough to do so. They need to have other revenue streams like streaming etc, which cuts in to serious practice time.

It is just that simple, and it is like everything else in the world: it comes down to the money. With Riot paying teams a salary next year, we will see if north american teams really have it in them to compete at a top level, or if they really are too immature to develop that level of team work.
This pretty much sums up my original post. I never once said anything about individual skill. The most I mentioned when it comes to game play was strategy. I also mentioned a hope that with Riot paying a salary they might actually get better. However in the case of TSM, they've made a healthy salary off their 7 LAN wins in the past few months.

Also, those of you who think sponsors = money. That's laughable. Most sponsors will give some computer parts and call it good, sometimes they might pay for you to travel to a tourney. Most sponsors do not give a salary to NA teams (in fact, I can't think of one). Now there are some in Europe and Asia that do, but that's because (this wraps back up to my original point)....those two areas actually consistently compete at a high level and will do what it takes to win.

Quote:
I don't know what games you were watching, but TSM showed some remarkable plays in the AF series. It was really a matter of minor judgment errors adding up to give AF the victory (Dyrus getting caught, Chaox getting caught, initiating onto AF in mid after taking Dragon, etc).
Things like that Baron show how much more Asia have evolved in strategy. If they were facing another NA team (or even most Euro teams) there would have been dancing and poking around Baron all day. Asia puts very little pressure on Baron. If you want Baron, they will just take your inhibs. Or they will let you engage it and then come in later. Instead of the stupid slow 60 minute poke wars that NA is known for around that stupid pit. How did people get caught? Because AF was simply better at roaming presence, map control, and aggressiveness. Aka, they were just plane better. TSM had 10 minutes of time where they looked like they belonged there, and those 10 minutes were over quickly.


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octavian1127

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I also think you're missing that fact that 12 people living in one loft is considered a normal living condition for them.


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IS1371d96745694779c6cca

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
The sponsors are still supporting them. You don't seem to understand, a one bedroom apartment may be pretty miserable living accomodations, but sponsors in north america literally do not provide enough to support a team living in ANY kind of accomodations. It's about the reality that most of the best players in the world are kids with no money, whose parents aren't about to support them to play games. In north america, the amount of money required to provide for 5 people just to have a roof and food above what we consider the poverty line, is more than sponsors are willing to spend.

So you can claim that it's about ambition and whatever, but it's not. It's a matter of economics and practicality. Esports are no different than any other sport. The more money you throw at it, the better your teams will do. That is why the Americans, Russians, and Chinese dominate at the Olympics, plain and simple. Money, not talent. All nations have people capable of top tier talent in any sport or esport. It's about whether that nation is willing to support that talent.
100% complete bull****. EU teams arent living together in gaming houses, alot of them are practicing from home and are still doing better than all NA teams. And saying that they cant afford living in a small room close together is even more bull****, the top 3 teams of NA are freakin living in rented mansions. Why not rent a small house and apartment and just stream alittle less so they can practice more? The avg. cost of living is more expensive in europe than it is in NA. Get your facts straight please.


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Kaolla

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
Computer peripherals and a few thousand bucks really don't go far with a landlord. You are vastly overestimating what sponsors pay NA teams. The biggest NA teams have, from the start, made most of their money off streaming, which is part of the reason they have less time to practice.
and once again, that was their decision

until you come up with real figures on what is earned from sponsorships you really have no idea what is and isn't feasible.

you're arguing that they COULD NOT make it happen, and i'm saying they WOULD NOT


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Demosthenes

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traithan View Post
This pretty much sums up my original post. I never once said anything about individual skill. The most I mentioned when it comes to game play was strategy. I also mentioned a hope that with Riot paying a salary they might actually get better. However in the case of TSM, they've made a healthy salary off their 7 LAN wins in the past few months.

Also, those of you who think sponsors = money. That's laughable. Most sponsors will give some computer parts and call it good, sometimes they might pay for you to travel to a tourney. Most sponsors do not give a salary to NA teams (in fact, I can't think of one). Now there are some in Europe and Asia that do, but that's because (this wraps back up to my original point)....those two areas actually consistently compete at a high level and will do what it takes to win.
Right, we're mostly saying the same thing, except it has nothing to do with the fact that they 'will do what it takes to win' and everything to do with the fact that their esports is a larger advertising market there, so sponsoring a top team is a more lucrative endeavour. Again, it's all economics.


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Disillusion

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Thank you for representing the home side with a combined 1-7 record you mean?


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