@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Nyarii

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Lee View Post
Well done OP, you summed up my concerns about the way Riot designs its female characters very well, and explained it far better than I could have done.
[...]
What I have found interesting about a lot of the comments here is how dismissive some people are about this problem. Sexism is widespread in the gaming industry and it's something we should think about and acknowledge, not just flat out deny. A lot of people have assumed that the OP is a woman simply because he has these concerns, as if the only people who care about feminism and gender equality are "whiny" girls. Also there have been a few girl gamers specifically commenting that they don't see a problem here. This shows that men are not the only ones who can be dismissive of gender concerns. Often in a male dominated environment it can be appealing for women to side with the majority and not take issue with what's going on. It's as if they're trying to say, "well I'm a girl, so I have authority on the topic, and I don't see a problem here, so therefore there can't be a problem."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senstrae View Post
[...]
Keeping silent about oppression is just as bad as endorsing it. We're not going to see change unless we stand up against what is wrong.
[...]
Yes, the game is often hostile if not downright toxic in chat. Most of the time it's pointing fingers, and trolling. But I feel like insulting someone on the basis of gender, sexuality, race, culture, or anything of the sort is a line that should not ever be crossed.

People know not to bring up race as an insult. It's time people also know not to bring up gender as an insult. Harassment is something that should be addressed, not shrugged off, belittled, or ignored.

I especially enjoyed these two posts from earlier, as they sum up issues very nicely. I highly recommend that anyone who missed them check them out.


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mogonk

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
Akali's side boob is a real clothing style and is in fault of females because they wear such clothing designs in the real world.
I don't even know where to start with this.

I give up. Explaining gender theory to people who don't have a clue is just too tiring.


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AussieBoss

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Unprepared Garen pls!


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Drukyul

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I will say that Riot doesn't seem to have any reason for making every single one of the random non-humanoid monsters "male".


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
I have been quite civil and I am not speaking with hostility or condescendingly. At worst I have said you appear to be trolling everyone in this thread and not taking it seriously (as seen in your lack of evidence or logical backing, and personal biased views/comments). If you can show otherwise I shall rectify my manner of speaking and offer apology.

As example of ignored posts that you refuse to discuss and are supposedly hostile and/or condescending...




I would appreciate it if you stop being so hostile/insulting (this is not sarcasm btw) and take this topic seriously instead of picking your fights with those that coincide and ignoring others. At current the discussion with you is entirely one sided due to closed mindedness and refusal to properly discuss the topic.
Alright. Eve, Irelia, Fiora, Janna, Karma, Leona, Miss Fortune,Morgana, Riven, Sivir, Soraka and Aristocrat Vayne all look like they are in their 20's or younger. Your claim that Miss Fortune is in her 40's is outlandish to me. The one champion that looks older than 30 is Diana, and maybe Queen Ashe, and only by a little. They haven't reached the middle-aged mark. The new Soraka and Riven look like teenagers. We don't see any women with wrinkles, graying hair, or any signs of aging.

Games may not be the only contributor to what shapes our society, but that doesn't mean shouldn't strive to improve the impact that they do have. I've stated multiple times that I don't want a lady Gragas. He is only used as an example of Riot willing to takes risks with men and not women. Soraka could be a million years old, but if she looks 19 then she isn't a groundbreaking granny champion.


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oioioi9537

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Recruiter

10-06-2012

"syndra's cleavage is the focal point of her splash art"
i found this interesting until that point. i just stopped reading


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogonk View Post
Civil discussion also gets us nowhere.

Funny how that works.
Probably true, but at least we can walk away from it without wanting to pull our hair out.


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┼mbition

Member

10-06-2012

stop bumping this thread nobody gives a ****


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Daemon

Senior Member

10-06-2012

To sum up this thread:

Make more female champions that look like this:
-x-
-x-
-x-
-x-
-x-
How can you not love Astrid and her weapon obsession?
Lin is a 50 year old woman, yet everyone loves her.

Not like this:
-x-
-x-
-x-
-x-
-x-


Maybe if Riot is feeling extremely confident:
-x-
-x-
Okay, we seriously need some black people in the League....


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
Actually her boobs are not larger then her wasteline, but I can definitely see why you may think that due to a fault on the artist's end (see Tryndamere's anatomy... and others in past topics of these forums). I would also argue that her boobs are realistic but the arc'd position and failure to properly portray her waste on the artist's end make it seem less so. Despite the fact that you and I may not find them attractive it is a well known stereotype that men like large breast and hers are within realistic proportions (for even natural bust).
You can still see the original proportions on her Waterloo and Cowgirl skins. Compare boob size to waist size.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to have boobs like MF's in a vacuum. I'm saying that her boobs are way too large for her body. That is indisputable. "It's her waist's fault, not her boobs'!" is missing the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
Fiora.. the French are often stereotyped as being attractive and this is her theme. To take matters further she is an athletic sword practitoner (using a thin rapier style of sword play... which coincides aesthetically with her thin and refined body).
You're saying the pose is okay because she's...French.

...

...

Here's a serious fencer posing for the camera:
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/in...the-camera.jpg

There is rather a large difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
Akali's side boob is a real clothing style and is in fault of females because they wear such clothing designs in the real world. I also do not believe that it is in any way sexist or condescending to women. Do you?

Syndra is a sexy powerful (effectively) mage and is not over the top to be honest. Then again this game is rated for Teen. Neither her nor Akali are really any worse then a women wearing a swim suit (think about it in that reference for a moment).
I routinely wear swimsuits to the battlefield!

Your basic error in reasoning here is arguing that because women sometimes wear clothing like this in particular contexts, that it makes sense in THIS context without thinking of it as inappropriate sexualization. That is false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
Eve's theme is vamprism and seductiveness/ultimate predator so it actually is a rather accurate portrayal. I personally think it could have been better done since I feel it is over the top as well... but it is not sexist since it is representing a very accurate theme.
Eve is kind of a disaster zone. Her lore is utterly generic horsepucky that in no way fits with her appearance, and the only thing she's going to murder in that outfit is her own thighs as the spikes on her outfit scrape the flesh off her bones. Her new art at least looks slightly more aggressive than the old art, but it still comes off as ridiculous rather than dangerous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
I am curious what you think about these points after seeing it from a different angle. Also be back to check up on thread in a bit.
I think that this new angle is a predisposition to think the art is fine, which therefore seeks an excuse for every instance where Riot crossed the line.