@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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MTaur

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by whouthink View Post
Why is the female gender being portrayed correctly such a big issue? They're a business trying to sell to a primarily male audience.
Marketing to straight males looking for wank fodder and ending up with that as your biggest consumer is a self-fulfilling prophesy. There are more ways to make money than just by pandering to the lower tastes of the only potential audience you can be bothered to imagine exists.


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Achenar

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by whouthink View Post
Oh god another gender equality thread.
Why is the female gender being portrayed correctly such a big issue? They're a business trying to sell to a primarily male audience.
This is a video game you know. Diversity for the sake of diversity is dumb.

As long as people like you have a problem with it, it will be a problem.
Perhaps it's because, for no real reason whatsoever, they are alienating 50% of their potential market? The playerbase is predominately white males BECAUSE of the way the game is marketed. It's hard to expand that playerbase without, I don't know, appealing to other demographics.

Seriously. Yes, *** sells. Sexism tends to offend people, and thus doesn't sell. There's a difference between 'NO SEXY IN THE GAME EVER' and 'how about we try a more balanced approach to our characters', and it's the latter that's being advocated here.

For the record, I know I wouldn't be so bothered by the hyper-sexualisation of female champions if male champions got the same treatment with the same frequency - or if there was a higher rate of female champions with skins that weren't minidresses or Playboy bunny leotards.


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Xengre

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
That's why I wanted to focus on the human and human-esque champions. The monsters are a completely different conversation. But this guy insisted Anivia was an example of an aged female champion, despite me stating she was irrelevant.

The point he was responding to was my claim that there are no human females that look much older than 30, while there are plenty of guys middle aged and older.
Anivia was in no way my only example.
Eve, Irelia, Fiora, Janna, Karma, Leona, Miss Fortune,Morgana, Riven, Sivir, Soraka (was human before), Aristocrat Vayne (not sure about default Vayne) area few that may arguably and very likely be 30+ in age.


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DJ Shyvana

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
The ancient Greeks created a standard for male beauty that I think is still relevant today. The point is, they aren't afraid to make a male champion they know is not conventionally attractive. Gragas, Draven, and Zilean don't have to be bursting with charisma. But every female champion has a pretty face and a great figure. I just think it's generic and boring.
So, are you wanting a generic and boring standard Greek male for all male champions or female versions of Gragas, Draven, and Zilean?


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L2P Mate

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

tl:dr, OP got friend-zoned.


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Achenar

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
My "detail" was only going as far as yours but providing reasonable unbiased views.

If you leave out Yordles and such Soraka is one of the oldest champions in the game... Miss Fortune definitely looks aged (though gracefully) and Sivir is likely at least 25+ but may be younger (though it seems unlikely). I stated quite a few more then those 3.
Just want to point out - while pre-redesign I would TOTALLY agree with you on Soraka, now that she has been redesigned she looks like she's 18. And that's the problem - even when the characters have a background that implies they're older than 25, they still look significantly younger, for the sake of being more attractive/sexy and fulfilling male power fantasies. Sivir is probably borderline, depending on the particular piece of art. By contrast, if the male characters pretty much always look like they're an age appropriate to their lore.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom Stoneice View Post
And, believe it or not, Riot is attempting to influence society positively. IronStylus specifically is doing a lot of work for gender-equal representation in the game. Have you noticed how the last few female champions released have been less overtly sexualized? Thank IronStylus for that.

I want to continue this discussion with you though; what do you think Riot should be doing to promote gender equality? I understand your idea of more sexualized male champion skins, but don't you feel like that might just contribute to the problem? Is there another, more constructive way for Riot to improve in this area?
That's great. I'm glad IronStylus is starting to listen. What really inspired me to create this thread, however, were two different Rioters participating in threads that mock and dismiss this topic. To me, they are encouraging bad behavior. When I heard Phreak say "more girls should play LoL" I thought "well maybe you shouldn't make fun of them when they talk about things that matter to them." Phreak himself didn't do it, and I know Riot as a whole doesn't condone this kind of behavior, but it's bothersome.


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Xengre

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
Video games have the power to influence our society. Yes, society as a whole is the bigger problem, but these attitudes are enforced by the games we play.
Games certainly do influence society but they are not soley to blame. In fact I move to argue that the majority of blame falls on the females of the world who sexualize themselves to gain attention in the media, in schools, among friends/peers, and even in gaming communities as "gaming girls".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
The ancient Greeks created a standard for male beauty that I think is still relevant today. The point is, they aren't afraid to make a male champion they know is not conventionally attractive. Gragas, Draven, and Zilean don't have to be bursting with charisma. But every female champion has a pretty face and a great figure. I just think it's generic and boring.
They actually try to intentionally avoid champs such as Gragas because due to their appearance they are not as popular. The primary reason Gragas, in particular, has any popularity is because people like to rebel and play a "fat" character intentionally and he is a powerful champion (in regards to gameplay). Zilean is fine... except that you have Soraka who fits this role just as well! She was once human and is possibly as old as Zilean if not older.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiryana View Post
So, are you wanting a generic and boring standard Greek male for all male champions or female versions of Gragas, Draven, and Zilean?
Neither. I was just trying to define the mold that Riot isn't afraid to deviate from.

However, I do think Graves could have just as easily been a woman of the exact same age, wearing the same kind of clothes, and she would be just as popular. I also want a Baba Yaga champion so bad it hurts. There's no reason a granny champion wouldn't be popular if done right.


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Logios

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogonk View Post
Has it occurred to you that the composition of their audience is a result of the choices they make, and not vice-versa?
Yes, because all other competitive games have a massive female player base.

As a side note, if having attractive characters is chasing off females, why do barbies still sell?