Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Flana Scarlet

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Rauhel:
Who's asking them to remove the content that appeals to the majority of gamers? I certainly am not. I happen to love many of the skins I criticized. I'm only suggesting that Riot also include more content that appeals to other groups. And who's to say that the same people that like sexy young female champions won't also enjoy a granny champion? They aren't mutually exclusive.


This is the main thing that annoys me. Riot said they want more diversity, which is good! Before that was Zyra (which was such a massive disappointment on so many levels for me), the Diana. And I don't care about DV Diana, why? Because her default is fantastic. That's the variety I want.

But at the same time you have random **** crop up, just 'cuz. Syndra looks like a BDSM fanatic from behind, for literally no reason. Everything about Zyra, after Morello specifically said that sexy and attratctive wasn't what the character was about.

Not counting the recent splash 'updates.' Every single one I've seen had the female champion in the same pose. Positioned so the ass and the chest is out, for maximum sexy!

It's ridiculous, especially on a non-sexual champion like Lux. I like playing Lux, she was my favorite support choice and a favorite mid for playing around. I loved her source (HUR DUR, I wonder how I know?) and visual style. I despise the new art and consider it a massive disservice to the character. Is it 'pretty' and slicker? Yes. Does it respect the champion at all? Not to me.

In fact, I've contact Riot customer support TWICE now ("pending" the second time. We'll see if it actually happens) to have her and her skins removed from my account. I can't 'not buy' this. Just not playing her isn't proving anything. Gamers are notorious for talking **** and then not doing anything about it. Not this time. I'm willing to remove that champion and all 3 skins I've bought to prove my point and stick to what I've been saying about Lux.

And no, I don't want a refund, nor am I asking for it. I just want Lux and her skins off my account. If Riot actually gives a splash that does the champion right, I'll buy her again. My two cents.


EDIT: Forgot to mention- No female monsters. I am disappoint. I like to murder and mutilate, and any of the Void champions could just as well be female as male. Anivia doesn't need **** to be female, why can't we have a female void monster?

EDIT 2: accidentally a word.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shizuhara

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Easily the best post on the subject I've seen to date. It's even respectful, which is amazing.

Since it's more stats and less opinion, I agree with it on all counts. Of course, IronStylus (inc cameo) is moving things in a good direction. I imagine that means that the whole art team is moving, since he couldn't just go rouge and put out w/e he wants.

He was responsible for Leona and Diana, at least, two of the champions that get a passing grade. He's also expressed similar concerns that Riot has only been appealing to the 'young, thin, sexy' crowd and is aiming to include other groups of women as well.

In short, you're right, and there's some people inside of Riot that agree with you.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Flana Scarlet

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Shizuhara:
Easily the best post on the subject I've seen to date. It's even respectful, which is amazing.

Since it's more stats and less opinion, I agree with it on all counts. Of course, IronStylus (inc cameo) is moving things in a good direction. I imagine that means that the whole art team is moving, since he couldn't just go rouge and put out w/e he wants.

He was responsible for Leona and Diana, at least, two of the champions that get a passing grade. He's also expressed similar concerns that Riot has only been appealing to the 'young, thin, sexy' crowd and is aiming to include other groups of women as well.

In short, you're right, and there's some people inside of Riot that agree with you.


I think the problem is, one or two people doesn't mean jack. There are hundreds of people working at Riot, and way more than just a couple working in art department. Unless Riot as a whole tries to step up their game, it's going to be a long uphill battle that could just result in absolutely nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I love IronStylus and all that he's done/doing for us. But one person isn't enough to change a design style for an entire company.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Shizuhara and Flana Scarlet, thanks for your fantastic posts. I was starting to go to a dark place and it cheered me up.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AIodia

Member

10-06-2012

i don't see the problem here, male players like sexy female champions, so there's a lot, female players like sexy male champions, so make more?... why the FUK are you bringing up sexism, why not bring up the economy, or how Riot as a company is doing this or that or w.e. the fuk they are doing, you are over zealous about *** and this whole feminism bull. no one is disrespecting females. just giving what the market most appreciates. and btw. *** sells. got a prob?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS1a420802574b139f7409f

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Flana Scarlet:
This is the main thing that annoys me. Riot said they want more diversity, which is good! Before that was Zyra (which was such a massive disappointment on so many levels for me), the Diana. And I don't care about DV Diana, why? Because her default is fantastic. That's the variety I want.

But at the same time you have random **** crop up, just 'cuz. Syndra looks like a BDSM fanatic from behind, for literally no reason. Everything about Zyra, after Morello specifically said that sexy and attratctive wasn't what the character was about.

Not counting the recent splash 'updates.' Every single one I've seen had the female champion in the same pose. Positioned so the ass and the chest is out, for maximum sexy!

It's ridiculous, especially on a non-sexual champion like Lux. I playing Lux, she was my favorite support choice and a favorite mid for playing around. I loved her source (HUR DUR, I wonder how I know?) and visual style. I despise the new art and consider it a massive disservice to the character. Is it 'pretty' and slicker? Yes. Does it respect the champion at all? Not to me.

In fact, I've contact Riot customer support TWICE now ("pending" the second time. We'll see if it actually happens) to have her and her skins removed from my account. I can't 'not buy' this. Just not playing her isn't proving anything. Gamers are notorious for talking **** and then not doing anything about it. Not this time. I'm willing to remove that champion and all 3 skins I've bought to prove my point and stick to what I've been saying about Lux.

And no, I don't want a refund, nor am I asking for it. I just want Lux and her skins off my account. If Riot actually gives a splash that does the champion right, I'll buy her again. My two cents.


EDIT: Forgot to mention- No female monsters. I am disappoint. I like to murder and mutilate, and any of the Void champions could just as well be female as male. Anivia doesn't need **** to be female, why can't we have a female void monster?


I guess different opinions all around. Personally I strongly dislike the Syndra default as well - though as a typical straight male not for probably the same reasons, but just because it seems sort of random, arbitrary, and mediocre, missing the opportunity for a better skin - fortunately for me, there is the Justicar Skin - which I think would fit your criteria as well, so I'm not really seeing a huge problem there.

As for the Lux splash art, personally I don't find the new splash art at all sexualized. If that's the goal, I guess its a failure. I think it is miles and miles ahead of the old one in quality. The other one was just... really poorly drawn. Stylistically it it was boring. Quality-wise it was terrible. Clearly you view this the complete opposite of me, but you have to keep in mind that there are going to be people like me that cannot even really understand what your complaint there is. Yes - the pose is a bit freaky and probably not correct. No - artists are not perfect. I don't think it was done out of any sexist intentions though, more to try to convey depth and motion, which are... difficult to draw.

As for your request, well - I doubt they are not fulfilling it just to spite you, but more likely - they don't really understand wtf you are asking for or they don't really have a procedure for deleting champions from an account.

And for the record, I haven't downvoted anyone. We have different opinions, and I can frankly say I just don't see that many of your points from my point of view. While I'm not a Riot artist (and thus my opinion isn't all that relevant) I think its worth considering that you have a very... invested prospective on it, just like anyone else. We all take away what we want from things. I do agree that some of the skins - Syndra and Zyra are in fairly poor taste just because they are so boring for the most part, but both of them certainly have more depth than just mindlessly sexy.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

epıdemıc

Senior Member

10-06-2012

By saying that if you aren't going to "respect" a skin of a champion or a woman because of how much skin she shows, you are a gross individual no matter your gender or who you are attracted to. A womens body is her own and she can show how much or how little of it she wants and she does not deserved to be shamed either way. If you think that a woman doesn't deserve to be respected because of how sexually active/sexualized she is, that is a whole other problem.

Now it's complete common knowledge that video games are going to appeal to the straight dudebro gaze because that is the majority of the people who are playing it. But the straight dudebro are not the only people playing the game and to completely ignore any gay men or straight woman who are playing your game in order to make straight guys feel more comfortable because they aren't secure enough about themselves that they can't handle a half naked guy on their screen because it might tarnish their masculinity somehow is absolutely ridiculous.

Furthermore, women are much much more then their bodies and it's horrible to see them constantly reduced to that, but it is so ingrained in the media and peoples heads it's just not going to change no matter how badly it should.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AIodia

Member

10-06-2012

wow so you girls play because the champions look hot? geez go play dota 2 or something. or play the game for the game itself. go play chess. no s3x there.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AIodia

Member

10-06-2012

what this boils down to isn't feminism or sexism, its low self esteem and how being misled by how the media portrays women, (as how the media ALWAYS have portrayed women) the s3xy angelic representation of perfection which is the holy grail of every man. so you are saying make stuff that appeal to the holy grail of women? well what's that? taric? why don't you do design a character and submit it for review and creation.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Garrand

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Rauhel:
Wall of text


You blame Riot? Riot is a company, a company wants to make money. How does a company make money? They provide a product and/or service to a market that is wanted or needed.

The market is everyone in the world who wants and is able to play video games, and will pay money to do so.

What sells? *** sells. Oldest profession in the world. It sells, and it sells well, especially to young men. If you have a guaranteed market for one product, and the opportunity cost for that product is a market that might possibly buy some of your stuff, it's an obvious choice about what to make. There is an opportunity cost here, they have only so many artists. They could hire more, but for what end? Would they generate that much more cash? It's an unknown, and companies are scared of unknowns.

You know what isn't unknown? The male libido. You see where this is going.

Don't blame Riot, blame the market.