@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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madjai

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by emailsupport548 View Post
I was going to argue that this seems more philosophical than psychological, then I realized that most people here are so set on their opinions and "morals."
Philosophy can still be presented in this nature, but yes, you are correct, moral and opinion is on the high value scale in this circumstance, so it would be interesting to see all viewpoints (Riot's especially).


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Senstrae

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Confrontation is a necessary element to incite change. The act of informing an individual that they are being sexist, is forward and educational. If the corrected individual is a reasonable human being, they will question why their words and statements caused such a harsh reaction. The goal is to make them feel uncomfortable with their ignorant ideas and beliefs on gender. It should prompt the offensive individual to modify their own actions, or otherwise defend them via argument. Regardless of the outcome of an individual argument - the more frequently this confrontation happens, the more likely the harassing person will actually take the time to consider and possibly reassess their actions. If they later determine that they did not have a good reason to be sexist, then they'll likely change their behavior.

Most of the time, people conform to what is socially and culturally acceptable. All we're looking to do is to make it so that insulting on the basis of gender is no longer passable. We're not asking for anything extremely radical here, we just want to be treated with a basic sense of respect and decency.

Yes, the report and ignore feature exist. I utilize both. However, I feel morally responsible to inform the individual that they are being sexist in hope that they will actually modify their behavior. What Riot and The Tribunal does on the back end is completely out of my hands, even if I do use the report button. By confronting, then ignoring and reporting, I personally feel I am covering all of my own bases.


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BerserkSheal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeriphor View Post
The ignore function is in place as a stopper to prevent any further verbal abuse from happening. The responsibility is with the one performing the abuse to not abuse, not the one getting abused to take action to not be abused.

When you claim that someone getting abused is at fault for not doing something to stop it, in this case ignoring them, then you are blaming the victim.
ANNND ITS GONE, over the head.

Again you keep bringing into the focus the stupid notion that people will respect others, and that`s an already flawed premise.

Or else the mute and report function would never have been created.

This isn`t a paradise where everyone greets each other, and sings along to a happy tune and at the end of the game everyone wishes each other well.

People will break the rules, and people will abuse people for whatever reason it happens to be. You can choose to ignore it by muting them, and reporting them and they`ll be dealt with.

I don`t know how much simpler it can be, I really don`t. But I guess all that smarts has affected you because you seem to keep creating conflicts resorting to how humans behave which is affected by a multitude of varieties.

And now I`m done.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerserkSheal View Post
What ....

No I`m not, I`m suggesting that if you want to walk into a game, and pretend that everything will be lovey dovey is a lost cause.

Where do you think my suggestion of the mute+report came from .. thin air. Instead of being forced to listen to verbal abuse you have the option to ignore it, something people don`t see to wish to use, where did using that somehow come off as ``keep doing it`.

Why do you think Riot implemented it in the first place, for giggles.
I think the fundamental error here is that you confuse the goal of civility with the expectation that it will happen overnight. Becoming apathetic about abusive behavior on the internet just because it can't ALL be eradicated is a good way to encourage more abusive behavior on the internet.


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Lalute

Member

10-06-2012

I agree with a lot of what is said in the OP about champion design. No comment on the issue of the male playerbase's treatment of the female playerbase, though.

@Riot: Please don't ignore this thread. Please respond to the original post.


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BerserkSheal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
I think the fundamental error here is that you confuse the goal of civility with the expectation that it will happen overnight. Becoming apathetic about abusive behavior on the internet just because it can't ALL be eradicated is a good way to encourage more abusive behavior on the internet.
I didn`t confuse anything, the goal of civility is respect is given and respect is earned. The thing is, in practice you will not change everyone.

You see the same people breaking the same rules, its not riots job to rehabilitate people who do not wish to be. It`s riots job to make sure said players are a minority and punished accordingly.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerserkSheal View Post
I didn`t confuse anything, the goal of civility is respect is given and respect is earned. The thing is, in practice you will not change everyone.

You see the same people breaking the same rules, its not riots job to rehabilitate people who do not wish to be. It`s riots job to make sure said players are a minority and punished accordingly.
All right, then the discussion has probably wandered into the territory of violent agreement ("Well of COURSE XXX is true, but you also claimed YYY!" "No, I only claimed XXX, and why are you shifting the goalposts when you really said ZZZ?!"). Unless you think the people you're arguing against favor hypnotizing trolls to make them stop trolling, of course.


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Light Fantastic

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I love this thread OP. Thank you for taking the time and effort to explain. I completely agree.

The reason to attract more girls to LoL is simple - you double your potential player base. Most girls I know who don't play game aren't necessarily against the idea of sitting down at a computer for their entertainment - rather, they don't want to deal with internet troglodytes and don't want to be associated with them. Make games more inviting by giving women in games designs that have qualities other than explicit fanservice.

I know you can't do this all by yourself, Riot. But you have one of the biggest games in the world right now - you could make a significant impact. Lead, and others will follow.


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Firellius

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerserkSheal View Post
What ....

No I`m not, I`m suggesting that if you want to walk into a game, and pretend that everything will be lovey dovey is a lost cause.

Where do you think my suggestion of the mute+report came from .. thin air. Instead of being forced to listen to verbal abuse you have the option to ignore it, something people don`t see to wish to use, where did using that somehow come off as ``keep doing it`.

Why do you think Riot implemented it in the first place, for giggles.
It should be lovey dovey! That would be normal, it's normal for people to be civilised with one another! It should be normal on the internet too. If you're just passing it off as a lost cause, you're giving in and just letting the bullies do whatever they want. You're not taking a stand against them.

Yes, there's the mute function and the report button. And I'm all for using the report button. I think everyone is. But the mute function is not an acceptable solution to the problem. It's damage control that the victim is burdened with.

Already there's loads of people who think that verbal abuse should not be a reportable offense because there is a mute button. It's working in the wrong direction. By dumping the cleanup on the victim, the perpetrators think that they're in the clear and they can keep doing it.

Yes, there is a mute button, and yes, it's often smart to use it. But we as a community should work towards making the mute button obsolete. And we do that by rubbing accountability in the bullies' faces. Not by avoiding the issue.


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BerserkSheal

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firellius View Post
It should be lovey dovey! That would be normal, it's normal for people to be civilised with one another! It should be normal on the internet too. If you're just passing it off as a lost cause, you're giving in and just letting the bullies do whatever they want. You're not taking a stand against them.

Yes, there's the mute function and the report button. And I'm all for using the report button. I think everyone is. But the mute function is not an acceptable solution to the problem. It's damage control that the victim is burdened with.

Already there's loads of people who think that verbal abuse should not be a reportable offense because there is a mute button. It's working in the wrong direction. By dumping the cleanup on the victim, the perpetrators think that they're in the clear and they can keep doing it.

Yes, there is a mute button, and yes, it's often smart to use it. But we as a community should work towards making the mute button obsolete. And we do that by rubbing accountability in the bullies' faces. Not by avoiding the issue.

Already there's loads of people who think that verbal abuse should not be a reportable offense because there is a mute button. It's working in the wrong direction. By dumping the cleanup on the victim, the perpetrators think that they're in the clear and they can keep doing it. - Same argument as the other person and hence the mute + report option.

Are you following, since when does being muted and reported and more than likely banned for said abuse giving off the impression that they got away scot free and are thus allowed to continue.

OVER THE HEAD. If you are adamant against mute, tell riot to remove it. I can`t wait to see that floodgate open.