@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Vu Sugoi

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
My girlfriend quit playing LoL because of the way women are treated by the community. Sexism and gender discrimination is completely acceptable on the internet and these forums apparently.

Every time women discuss how something in LoL makes them feel. People on the internet often jump down their throat and try to argue that their feelings are invalid because of said *male perspective example*. It doesn't work that way... men don't dictate how women feel or should feel... The idea that Pentakill Olaf appeals to female gamers is further proof of the fact that men have a real difficulty understanding what women find appealing or sexually attractive.

Here is a perfect example of how men in the gaming community cannot handle any criticism.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/07/what-online-harassment-looks
pentakill olaf is awesome so if the ladies thinks is sexy then even better. theres always some guy who will harass the girls, there will always some guy who will be her white knight and there will be others who don't care if shes a girl. See this all the time but if theres a legitimate issue that will/is affecting the community without a large number of people reporting it then action would be taken. I assume thats how would respond like the did several occasions like the implement of the report system, honor system, dodge queue penalty etc.

sexism and gender discrimination is not acceptable. I hear these people asking for variety and less sexualized champs but at the same time condemning the ones that are sexualized or appear to be and some pushing that point as a grand factor that why LOL is a cesspool of sin and evil for having it. You want some of the champs that come out that isnt sexualized, then that is fine but if you want to get rid of it all together then **** no.

I'm not saying all of you who are defending OP is even though most of you agree with the more variety but seem oblivious of his remarks that negatively objectifying them and that because they are sexy or curvy or whatever doesn't make them bad. none of us here are saying small breast or less sexy champs are disgusting. We're not forcing riot to have ONLY sexy champs although a lot of us prefer it because we like good looking champs on all levels.


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Vu Sugoi

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrusstrafe View Post
We should set up a poll for this. Two in fact.

1) Who is offended by this?
I am
I am not

2) As a player of the game, are you overall enjoying the character models?
No
Yes

I guarantee you the results will both be unsurprising heavily skewed towards the second choices.
i know and as i mentioned earlier, a lot of my female friends that play games say they dont really care much about the *** factor in the game and enjoy playing the character but they also like variety. there are some people who has a problem and thats just something we have to work on without screwing the majority


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrusstrafe View Post
Too buried, nobody will read this, but I find it bloody hilarious that the counter-post to this has more upvotes in considerably less time.

Also, you wrote way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way too much to say "I feel that female human LoL champion models are biased towards oversexualized females, and also that there are way more of them than anything else."

This is coming from someone who can barely get any point across without a thesis written.

Here's my counterpoint, what, do you want a female Gragas rolling around burping at enemies to disorient them? Do you just want slightly larger female characters? Nobody will pick or not pick based on how they look over how they play. Attractive female skins are made to make more money (and according to the porn industry it works rather well). Do you want to turn the clam bake into a sausage fest? I don't understand at all what the hell you want changed, because nothing that could rectify this would really change anything except randomly satisfy a small subset of people that actually give a **** (most of which aren't playing or paying anyways).
There is conflicting research on the idea of sexualization as an unqualified good purely from a sales standpoint. That said, the best way to answer your post is with examination of current skins and hypothetical changes that would remove the tawdry aspect while keeping the sexiness. Things like:

-Giving MF, Morg, and Sivir waists that admit internal organs
-Letting Fiora take a serious fencing posture instead of in that hideously awkward pose
-Wrapping Akali's top all the way around her body
-Adding a mere few inches onto Sona's gown so her breasts aren't falling out of it
etc.

And conversely, give Kassadin muscles rather than endless rows of inhuman bumps. Let Varus have something to wear besides a scarf.

Then we look at the sort of art that we might ADD to the lineup. Well, here's a very small sample:
http://ryodita.deviantart.com/art/Astrid-251942878
http://jasonengle.deviantart.com/art...cker-310461369
http://sakimichan.deviantart.com/art/Sato-317040134
http://ladyofpayne.deviantart.com/ar...ll-2-204741072
http://johntesh.deviantart.com/art/A...s-11-293351638


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Karolina

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jireo View Post
pointing it out is one thing, slapping labels on them as well is another. i dont hate strippers, i have roommates who paid their school tuition as a stripper. even know a judge that did the same thing. It's the way the OP use it. If he's not using it in a offensive manner then he wouldn't use the word to prove the point that its a problem. Unless OP is saying strippers have a problematic view and therefore is using it OR OP is saying the champ is an independent woman strong woman because she stripper.
I had to read the OP again just to make sure. There's no demeaning mention of strippers. OP says it's what a stripper would wear, not a real nurse. How is that insulting ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jireo View Post
and no, i dont want a 18+ game. I dont like the fact that someone makes extreme accusation without REAL careful thought in the comments they choose
You do that as well when you say that the OP has an agenda, that people who agree with this are afraid of boobs, etc.

And you may call it "bashing", but the lack of variety needs to be mentioned somehow for the suggestion the OP is making, so I'd actually call it a "summary".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jireo View Post
I'm all for more variety on all level but if people going to push a sexist agenda instead of a "lack of variety" agenda then I have a problem(...) but dont address the issue where pointing a fact as a evil flaw of the game.
There's no sexist agenda.
Nobody called the lack of variety an evil flaw.


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Vu Sugoi

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karolina View Post
Apart from the fact that you ignored everything else I said in that post:
And Kennen ? Why does he look like a real medic ?
And TF ? Why does he look like a real cowboy ?
Only male champions can look like the real deal ?

Akali could have perfectly looked like a real nurse. It's not like Shen's skin is very complex and yet it works.

EDIT: again, I'm not against her sexy nurse costume (especially after the Japan Red Cross relief thing), but almost all female skins are like that.
so whats your point? youre saying majority of the players want to see a pantless outlaw TF? if so then riot wouldve gave it to us and i am perfectly fine with that. kennan looks like a MD, is there another version the majority want to see?

Agent MF looks like an agent, candy cane
MF looks like shes themed for christmas
road warrior MF looks like shes from a post apocolyptic area
default ashe looks like a archer
wood elf ashe looks like she belongs in the woods
safari cait looks like she was from the safari hunting
night raven fiora looks like shes some kind of dark knight assassin
zyra looks like she came out of the ground
syndra looks like she belongs in a dungeon where she practice black magic
leona looks like shes a tank from the sun kingdom or something

I could go on... but whats not the real deal? Yeah some are exaggerated and others are just for fun and if you dont like fun or something different. Just stick to the default because a lot of them looks like the real deal.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrusstrafe View Post
Gandhi, Mother Teresa, any time Hindu/Tibetan monks protest really anything, quite a lot can be done nicely and calmly. Riot is most likely willing to work with ya'll and I hope they do, the average playerbase won't be, especially if it ever comes even close to reskinning old characters that have big boobs.
Gandhi didn't fight with fists, but he whipped up quite a firestorm in colonial India.

The Tibetan monks, meanwhile, whipped up a literal firestorm. With their bodies.


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Vu Sugoi

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
Upset? No
Bothered? Yes
I want to know why offering variety in female appearances upsets you sir.
no one is against variety, its the other people who are crying about girls getting harassed or game is too sexy or is objectifying woman so we should change it( not everyone is saying this but a good bunch is). if youre being harassed, you reported. changing the champ, skin or adding variety wont save you from harassment other than reporting it to riot and hopefully they get on it.


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Paravani

Recruiter

10-10-2012

The problem is that people focus on comparing men and women equally because they should be on equal footing... but that doesn't mean they should be comparable when it comes to this sort of thing. See in the public eye, men being either handsome or ugly can have a purpose in distinguishing them as a character... but as time has gone on, we've just found time and again that there is no point to making a female character ugly. they don't look tougher than gorgeous women can, and the "public perception" of a beautiful woman is a lot narrower than a beautiful man. the description you've given for an attractive man is very very specific, but many many people consider older men to be more attractive... and while you deny it, many many women are attractive to highly muscular men.

true, there are many men who find overweight women attractive, but they aren't represented here. In my opinion, that's one way to rectify things, I'd love for us to have a fat female champ, and not one on a "jokey-fat" level like gragas, i'd be up for anything that goes with the style of the game. i think a lot of us would be. but saying none of the men are sexualized and comparing that to the number of women is ridiculous. tot he core demographic of this game, 100% of the men are "idealized" and 100% of the women are too.


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
Gandhi didn't fight with fists, but he whipped up quite a firestorm in colonial India.

The Tibetan monks, meanwhile, whipped up a literal firestorm. With their bodies.
I'm dying


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Vu Sugoi

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizzleWrench View Post
Why is this ***** being upvoted shes literally crying about a fantasy video game having pixel boobs.
i wonder how many other people who notice that too? It's one of my whole points about OP.

Yes to variety, **** NO to OP vulgar and sexy woman hating rant. If OP thought carefully how the main points and examples are addressed then it might be different but all I saw was shes too sexy, shes a **** stripper, or whatever OP is whining about. complaining that most of the male champs dont get the same treatment? maybe its because majority of the players are males that prefer rugged bad ass or weird looking champs. most of them got a good amount of skins, if riot wants to throw in a sexy skin or even make a sexy male champ, go for it. only the homophobic players will contest it.