@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Shaella

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogonk View Post
Ladies and gents, step right up to get a peek into the mind of a conservative.

"Sexism exists, therefore sexism should exist."

Wow. Just...wow.
keep the politics out of this. Its not wise.


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clappersucks

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
Because thats sexism.
So now Riot is responsible for changing the cultural norms of how women are viewed? They are just a business.

Grow up.


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Karolina

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerserkSheal View Post
Because some folks came in here and started talking about how sexist some LoL players can be towards female players.

Otherwise it never would have been mentioned.
Well if I had to guess I'd say the ones who caused that were the guys screaming "omg feminazis go away" from their frothing mouths :I


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by clappersucks View Post
So now Riot is responsible for changing the cultural norms of how women are viewed? They are just a business.

Grow up.
You're a moron.
Riot isn't responsible, but they are conforming to the societal norms, it takes a want for change at somewhere in society for things to change through the rest.

Just because its the NORM doesn't mean its RIGHT you manchild

You grow up.


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clappersucks

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
You're a moron.
Riot isn't responsible, but they are conforming to the societal norms, it takes a want for change at somewhere in society for things to change through the rest.

Just because its the NORM doesn't mean its RIGHT you manchild

You grow up.

As I said, they are a business. There is absolutely no reason for them to want to go against societal norms when the majority of their customers enjoy the female models the way they are anyways. What do you think Riot is? A feminism movement?


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by clappersucks View Post
As I said, they are a business. There is absolutely no reason for them to want to go against societal norms when the majority of their customers enjoy the female models the way they are anyways. What do you think Riot is? A feminism movement?
Lord almighty, looks like i have to slow it down for your caveman brain to understand.

As a company, and especially this company in particular, has a huge amount of influence, especially over adolescent males, they have POWER.

IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN ****ING SPIDER MAN YOU KNOW THAT GREAT POWER COMES WITH GREAT RESPONSIBILITY

DO YOU ****ING HATE SPIDERMAN?

Your argument is 'things are bad, so things are bad, why try to make things better'

If no one ever tried to make anything better, we'd still be living in caves and throwing **** at eachother


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Obzidian

Member

10-08-2012

@Karonlina, also because there's a correlation between how women are portrayed in media (such as Riot's character models) and how they are treated in the real world. At least that was the link I was bringing up.

My responses to Captain ended up somewhat derailing from the original topic. My apologies =)

I'd also like to point out that there is a difference between saying, "That thing you said/did is sexist/racist/homophobic/etc." and "You are a racist/sexist/homophobe/etc."

Calling Riot out on problems with their champion design isn't the same thing as bashing the company. Its actually not all that different from calling for balance changes when there's an issue. Both issues can be toxic to the game and we just want it to continue to improve.


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SonsofaBastages

Senior Member

10-08-2012

I actually remember your post about miss fortune in that thread. I almost posted but decided it was overdone. Damn you forum addiction...

Two counter points: Barbie and middle school

1. You state that attractive females are part of a male *** fantasy (true) and that powerful/sexy dudes are part of a male power fantasy (true) but that females are entirely unconsidered (false). Why are Barbies so popular? There is a female fantasy of being desired - it is akin to the male power fantasy and while they are both probably unrealistic (some people are powerful and some people are universally desired, but most aren't). For some reason, playing to this male fantasy is catering but playing to an equivalent female fantasy is exploitation. (note I'm sure many males would prefer to be wanted and many females would prefer to be powerful and everyone wants both. However speaking in general terms there is a bit of a gender difference in terms of priorities) I'd argue that over the top male characters play to a male power fantasy AND a female *** fantasy, and that over the top female characters play to a male *** fantasy AND a female fantasy of being desired. Then there are outliers like Riven that are male *** fantasies and female power fantasies.

2. Middle School mentality: "girls are icky," "lol women drivers," ''get back in the kitchen and make me a samach." This mentality isn't restricted to middle school, it can last a lifetime and it is the larger problem making the community toxic to female gamers. While this is Riot's problem, the body that really influences this is the community itself. If some ******* starts spouting garbage, the other nine players need to shut them down not egg them on. Female gamers that use the fact that they are women and winning to attack others are preying on the insecurities of young males and really fall into this same category as far as I'm concerned. Granted taunting in all directions is good and fun up to a certain point.

The sexism issues in LoL are a matter of community toxicity. The position of the OP that all champions are made for male gamers but not female gamers isn't very well supported. Please let us all know what specifically you are looking for. I've been reading nebulous "Riot is Bad" posts from you for a while, but I still don't know specifically what would satisfy you.

This is a problem, but I think you've set yourself on the wrong target here. Go after Riot for their pricing changes all you want, but they've done a fairly good job on the sexism front.


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BerserkSheal

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karolina View Post
Well if I had to guess I'd say the ones who caused that were the guys screaming "omg feminazis go away" from their frothing mouths :I
Not really, because from the look of it, it wasn't the position of feminists that was the argument.

Just the viewpoint the OP was mentioning. somehow Riot, Straight/White/Males somehow got mentioned in the string of things and along came the girl gamer arguments and verbal abuse in game.


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Aphet

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Look at this and tell me how many champions in lol we get like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sexy...NYjFyAGzjID4BA

And then like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sexy...L4TvygHgoIHoBg

Stop arguing the fact that it's subjective because that is a null argument here. The point is, that the women champions are mostly portrayed in such a manner, whereas male champions are not. Trying to say, "Well, I don't find that sexy hurr" is a stupid argument in of itself because there ARE general standards of sexy for men. The thing is, the male champions aren't TRYING to be sexy, whereas the female champions clearly (most of them) are.