@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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MrTaxiTaxiTaxi

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
Who's asking them to remove the content that appeals to the majority of gamers? I certainly am not. I happen to love many of the skins I criticized. I'm only suggesting that Riot also include more content that appeals to other groups. And who's to say that the same people that like sexy young female champions won't also enjoy a granny champion? They aren't mutually exclusive.
You know what?....I would LOVE a granny champion. I agree with you all the way.


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Bastriuz

Senior Member

10-08-2012

My thing with females is body type we always get skinny girls with some amount of curves with small exceptions like anivia and annie, why can't we get any fat females or monstrous (not animal like anivia) females, a female void creature would be wonderful


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Mantis

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Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
What about this...
http://www.gamersbook.com/repository..._large.jpg?v=0
...makes you want to **** Brand? He's a molten man, not a male model. I entirely agree with the OP's decision to leave him out of the accounting, but were I to include him, I definitely would NOT put him in the 'sexualized' category.

Compare Brand to Battle Bunny Riven. Which is the obviously sexualized image?

TF is showing off his legs? Really? Compare his splash to Fiora's for an actual example of showing off assets.

I assume Lux made the list because her new skin has a broken back.
I think you are misunderstanding my comparisons and what I am trying to argue. I am not trying to compare things which are drastically different I am trying to compare things which are quite similar.

Brand is only similar to battle bunny riven in that he is in league of legends and is humanoid. Brand is much more similar to Cass and Zyra. All 3 of them lack many clothes and are monstrous humanoids. You are also assuming that I find brand sexy, I personally do not but that doesn't mean that one out there might. Also I frankly spend very little time looking at splash art and was doing much of my comparisons between the 3 on lolking.net's model viewer. Brand's muscle contours are fairly ideal unlike the super bodybuilders the Op deems not attractive.

Again I am not trying to argue that TF should be included in the sexualized list. I am trying to argue that neither Lux nor TF should be in the list because they are fairly similar in both their splash arts and in game models/animations. I do not think that this is true about fiora because the way she holds herself in game is similar to her splash art. Therefore it is silly to compare TF to Fiora because I am not arguing that TF is sexualized I am arguing Lux isn't. Also Lux's back seems more foreshortened than broken. Even if one does see it as looking broken how does that sexualize her? I would assume that someone with a broken back would be less sexy, perhaps that is just my own preferences about backs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
Topless girl is USUALLY SEXUAL
Topless guy is NOT USUALLY SEXUAL
So we have to consider whether the topless guy is posing like a male stripper or a male warrior to determine whether his skin is sexualized. We don't have to do the same if a female champion is flashing her ***s at the world.

Also, OP includes Nidalee and Riven due to French Maid and Battle Bunny skins. I don't necessarily agree that obvious fanservice skins make the whole champion fanservice, but she's not employing a double standard based on pose there.
The male champions I listed were in about as much attire as one would wear to casually go swimming. There are many female champions the Op listed that also have such attire. As far as I know there are no fully topless female champions in league of legends, please correct me if I'm wrong. What is the difference? Why is it that when one gender is showing almost the entirety of their skin you claim it is not sexual but when the other does the same it is? If there is something that compels one to think so then the problem is far deeper than any league of legends developer can fix. Such a problem would be a cultural problem of how genders are viewed. Since Nidalee and Riven both have particularly fanservicy skins I will admit that they are different enough to not hold a double standard. However, we can still compare the male skins I listed in my previous post to Ashe, Morgana, and Sejuani. None of these champions, including the male champions, carry themselves as seductive in the way they move or speak. I am overall for what the Op is trying to say, and trying to help him/her make his/her claims as empirical as possible?

On a side note has the Op mentioned their gender? I did not see them do such in the opening post and as such has tried to refer to them as either gender as I do not know myself.


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LouisLeGros

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Senior Member

10-08-2012

I've had a couple cases where I couldn't tell if I was dealing with a a per-pubescent boy or with a woman initially. I don't try to be a dick about it and I'm not going to treat a female differently if I figure out their gender over something like Skype/TS/Vent, but I'd strongly prefer to not have to deal with the typical 12 year old and the drama/squeaky voice that typically ensues.

I have experienced other people being dicks just because they find out that they are playing with a member of the opposite *** and it is a problem in the gaming community. It is annoying enough just witnessing it happening; personally I am not the most socially astute person, but it is still kind of unbelievable that you have to point out to these people that they are being dicks and making the situation uncomfortable for everyone when they make the gender of a specific player a focal point. For those actually on the receiving end of it I can see why it can make so many aspects of the gaming world uninviting.


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Khabi Jenkins

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbiwonKenabi View Post
I'm all for counter-arguing, but your points are shaky at best and they are held back by less-than-stellar grammar.

I don't have time to argue against all of your counter-arguments, but your last one in particular stood out to me. (Which I've highlighted here for sake of space conservation)

Sure, people don't like playing certain champions and some are less popular than others, but Riot has stated that they don't mind making champs that have a niche following as long as it adds something to the game. I think Urgot falls in this category and there are a lot of people who enjoy playing Urgot. And you are also making too many assumptions about other players; not everyone has the same tastes as you might have. For instance, you say no one wants to play Lulu, but I actually really like Lulu both gameplay- and design-wise. (I like how silly and childish she is, and her Whimsy is so much fun to use!) Another example might be Kog'Maw. Kog has a huge following despite the fact that he is a slimy oozing Void monster; people really like his design and cute puppy-dog-esque charm....but maybe not necessarily everyone is into that. Some people might like playing older (age-wise) characters--look at champions like Zilean and Swain, older guys that have a cool aura/demeanor that some people really like.

To sum it up: don't assume you know what every player likes and doesn't like
its not an assumption when i ask riot face to face and they said they dont WANT to make more champs that are disregarded because of appearance and the kit isnt even considered.
as for your kog topic, people love kog. i dont see how thats a good argument v me, i have 3 skins for him. zil would see more play if he wasnt such a push heavy support, or a ap mid that ends up being a late game support. to finish out zil, what other champ since zil was release back in the days of pendragon copy pasting the patch nots from word into the forums has even come close to his old decrepit look? as for swain this was a very well designed champ who had a great lore and the joj really helped jump him into the spotlight. he just appeares old because he has a cane, and limps. its the posture than makes people think they are older than really are. also lulu has a good following because of the cupcake poly. its like people loving teemo. he isnt bad, but is played more because its funy than tactical.


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yes92

Junior Member

10-08-2012

The real question is where are the black champions?


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clappersucks

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
How can you tell me that there is no disparity? That everything is fine. How can you deny the fact that women are treated differently?
No one is denying it. Females are treated different then males. Who cares? This is how it is in almost every aspect of life not just this game. I see absolutely no problems here.


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by clappersucks View Post
No one is denying it. Females are treated different then males. Who cares? This is how it is in almost every aspect of life not just this game. I see absolutely no problems here.
Because thats sexism.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
I think you are misunderstanding my comparisons and what I am trying to argue. I am not trying to compare things which are drastically different I am trying to compare things which are quite similar.

Brand is only similar to battle bunny riven in that he is in league of legends and is humanoid. Brand is much more similar to Cass and Zyra. All 3 of them lack many clothes and are monstrous humanoids. You are also assuming that I find brand sexy, I personally do not but that doesn't mean that one out there might. Also I frankly spend very little time looking at splash art and was doing much of my comparisons between the 3 on lolking.net's model viewer. Brand's muscle contours are fairly ideal unlike the super bodybuilders the Op deems not attractive.
I'm not sure why you would spend most of your time on the model viewer when model appearance is mostly seen from min zoom and is far less apparent than splash art appearance. Regardless, burning volcano rock-in-man-shape (which is the appearance of his splash art, despite the lore of possession) is--do I really need to say this?--not a typical seductive archetype that attracts many people sexually, or could be expected to. Dryad? Seductive half-serpents? Are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
Again I am not trying to argue that TF should be included in the sexualized list. I am trying to argue that neither Lux nor TF should be in the list because they are fairly similar in both their splash arts and in game models/animations. I do not think that this is true about fiora because the way she holds herself in game is similar to her splash art. Therefore it is silly to compare TF to Fiora because I am not arguing that TF is sexualized I am arguing Lux isn't. Also Lux's back seems more foreshortened than broken. Even if one does see it as looking broken how does that sexualize her? I would assume that someone with a broken back would be less sexy, perhaps that is just my own preferences about backs.
The reason the backbreaking pose is relevant is that artists draw that unhealthy arch to show off curves. As far as Lux is concerned, I think it's enough to say that the anatomy needs to be fixed; calling it a sexualized problem vs. not a sexualized problem isn't something I'm concerned with, though the OP might be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
The male champions I listed were in about as much attire as one would wear to casually go swimming. There are many female champions the Op listed that also have such attire. As far as I know there are no fully topless female champions in league of legends, please correct me if I'm wrong. What is the difference? Why is it that when one gender is showing almost the entirety of their skin you claim it is not sexual but when the other does the same it is? If there is something that compels one to think so then the problem is far deeper than any league of legends developer can fix. Such a problem would be a cultural problem of how genders are viewed. Since Nidalee and Riven both have particularly fanservicy skins I will admit that they are different enough to not hold a double standard. However, we can still compare the male skins I listed in my previous post to Ashe, Morgana, and Sejuani. None of these champions, including the male champions, carry themselves as seductive in the way they move or speak. I am overall for what the Op is trying to say, and trying to help him/her make his/her claims as empirical as possible?
Compare Classic Ashe to Freljord Ashe (and a few of her other skins) for an example of female champion marketed as serious champion (default) vs. as eye candy (freljord) with similar attire. Similarly, Sejuani's default skin is more sexualized than her Sabretusk skin. Morgana is a demon and they wear what they like, but she has MF's ridiculous waist problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
On a side note has the Op mentioned their gender? I did not see them do such in the opening post and as such has tried to refer to them as either gender as I do not know myself.
I got that impression at some point. I don't remember when.


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mogonk

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Senior Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by clappersucks View Post
No one is denying it. Females are treated different then males. Who cares? This is how it is in almost every aspect of life not just this game. I see absolutely no problems here.
Ladies and gents, step right up to get a peek into the mind of a conservative.

"Sexism exists, therefore sexism should exist."

Wow. Just...wow.