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@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

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Nyarii

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Gaskevinge:
Seems important to note that the OP wasn't asking for hot male skins. He was simply pointing out that there aren't many, and the ones that people DO point to for that, aren't sexualized. They are designed to look badass, not sexually attractive. Could some people find them sexually attractive? Sure, maybe that was a generalization on his part, but that's still not what he's asking for.

What he WAS asking for , was some variation in design philosophy. No need to stop coming out with skins that are appealing. But the simple fact is that when it comes to men in LoL, there's a large amount of variation in age and body type. With women, there is not. Seems like something that wouldn't be too terribly hard to fix.

Riot is a company. they need to make money, and *** sells. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't step in here and have a conversation about it. Rauhel posted up a thoughtful and respectful post about what he considers a serious issue. It's not like it was some poorly spelled and overly angry post yelling at riot for being morons. He deserves a response from Riot I think. If only because we need to support more of this. Thoughtful, Respectful posting.


^ This.


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chumbler

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
RisottoNero:
Women are not going to start playing LoL because they put eye candy for them. Say all you want but they are not a big market.


You should think about why they are not a big market and how that can be changed. The number of female gamers grows by the day, so neglecting that potential market is a big mistake. Some women may not be put off by the attitude Riot's female character designs represent, but some are. Telling them to **** off probably isn't the best idea. Likewise, allowing harassment on the basis of gender is not a good idea, but that also relies on a notoriously sexist community policing itself for that behavior.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Tinkerbat:
As a lady myself I agree with your original point about the hostility of the environment in some cases, but not with problem of the portrayal of champions. I love the art approach of the game and the skimpy outfits. Sexuality is not a bad thing at all and a women's form is a beautiful thing, so the more of it that shows the better, I feel.
Having said that, some variety in the age and shapes would be cool, but I will always prefer the sexier ones.
Women can be respectful, not flaunt themselves for attention in every match, desire and speak up for a non-hostile environment and yet still be unhappy that they nerfed the size of Ashe's chest. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

More power to you. I want you to have sexy women to play. I don't think it's bad to have that available to you. But if you are the type of person that enjoys grittier women, or sexy men, there aren't many options for you. That is where the problem lies.


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Captain Scourge

Member

10-05-2012

Boats-n-hoes.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
RisottoNero:
Women are not going to start playing LoL because they put eye candy for them. Say all you want but they are not a big market.

I know a TON of ladies that played Final Fantasy and other RPG's because they thought the male characters were easy on the eyes.


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Captain Scourge

Member

10-05-2012

On topic:

I don't have a problem with the sexy females. I also don't have any issues with making female champs not sexy. I am usually more into the game play to notice the bouncing boobs for too long. But I keep telling my wife she needs to dress up like Miss Fortune for Halloween. And I can dress like GP My wifes **** are not big enough but she sure fits the bill everywhere else.

Yeah getting off topic.

I support more fatties and old female champs. Make it interesting.


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RisottoNero

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
chumbler:
You should think about why they are not a big market and how that can be changed. The number of female gamers grows by the day, so neglecting that potential market is a big mistake. Some women may not be put off by the attitude Riot's female character designs represent, but some are. Telling them to **** off probably isn't the best idea. Likewise, allowing harassment on the basis of gender is not a good idea, but that also relies on a notoriously sexist community policing itself for that behavior.


You can say it's a big mistake and that's your opinion.

Until you give some data all we have is common sense and Riot's obvious approach to this. They don't care because they know it's not worth it. I don't know why you want to say otherwise when we all know the truth.

Quote:
Rauhel:
I know a TON of ladies that played Final Fantasy and other RPG's because they thought the male characters were easy on the eyes.


So now that this is game is filled with horny teenagers Riot should start attracting those girls just to have the worst community ever.


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Adumbro Deus

Recruiter

10-05-2012

Honestly, a lot of what you're saying is right, there's one section that have to object to.


Having limited clothing is not the same thing as being sexualized and frankly it has disturbing connotations. Furthermore, if that qualified we'd have a ton of male champions that were highly sexualized (the number of male and female champs with limited clothing are similar with a slight edge towards women iirc), but as you said with the male champs, what's the difference? The male champs are without exception an ideal for men, somebody you wanna be and what makes that occur?


Pose.


The male champions are without exception with expressive poses that convey their characters. A lot of the female characters, even characters that are wearing a lot, have poses that equate to "checking themselves out in a full-length mirror", which is obviously intended to give the male audience a peep show.

On the other hand, some female characters that are wearing almost nothing actually are extremely expressive. Sejuani for example, is not sexualized in the least, her pose de-emphasizes her sexual features and conveys only savagery. Akali is similar in all of her costumes except the old nurse akali splash art.


With this in mind, there IS exactly one piece of sexualized male splash art, tango twisted fate.



PS. There is a related issue of all the females being the same body type however.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Thunder Titz:
Wait, Sandstorm Katarina's risque because she looks like a belly dancer? I actually think Sandstorm Kat's one of her calmer skins because she looks like she was inspired by a belly dancer which explains why her midsection's exposed.

Belly dancing is a form of adult entertainment. Exotic dancer skins aren't far from stripper skins, so I feel like it deserves it's place on the list.

I don't actually have a problem with strippers, for the record. I have a problem with different standards for different genders.


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Nyarii

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Earlier in the thread, a link was shared [http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2012/02/21/she-has-no-head-no-its-not-equal/ (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fgoodcomics.comicbookresources.com%2F2012%2F02%2F21%2Fshe-has-no-head-no-its-not-equal%2F) ]. Let me borrow from that link a bit. The original article deals with superheroes, but the idea is the same.

"Men are generally portrayed with idealized ATHLETE body types. While women are generally portrayed with idealized PORN STAR and SUPERMODEL body types. An athletic male form suggests strength, power, and ability. Porn star and model body types suggest beauty, ***, and frequently, submissiveness.

"Is there anything wrong with perfection in fictional [gaming]? No. Is there anything wrong with [champions] being beautiful sexual beings? Of course not. Is there anything wrong with titillation for the sake of titillation? No, not in the right context. But because the vast majority of female [champions] are rendered this way, it leaves context out. It becomes ALL about titillation and ***, regardless of context. And that creates a problem.


"Posing is perhaps the most persuasive argument in the arsenal, because it’s such a prevalent and well-known fact that there’s an actual term that has been coined.
The brokeback (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fthebrokebackpose.tumblr.com%2F). The brokeback pose is when a female character literally looks as if her back is broken, because that is how she must pose in order to show readers both her **** and ass simultaneously. Because while male [champions] pose somewhat ridiculously quite often – they are still posing as athletes, heroes, conquerors, and badasses. They generally look powerful and in control." [A prime example of this is Lux's new splash art.]

The problem is not even the sexiness of the woman champions. The issue is that there is an extremely diverse male cast of champions, but not a diverse cast of women champions. The women all seem to be in the same age range [or much older while still having the body of a buxom 20 year old], and mostly the same body types.

I'm not against sexy adult human champions. I play Morgana and Cassiopeia, and i enjoy them both. However, i don't really feel that we need yet another Morg splash art where we can count her ribs, yet wouldn't be able to fit her breasts in one hand. It's just getting ridiculous.

IronStylus apparently said something vague about working on it. And then we got Diana, which did seem to be a step in the right direction. But then we got Syndra, who uses her gravity power to keep up her huge breasts. Along with Miss Fortune's new who re splash art, rib-counting Morg, and Lux's new brokeback splash art. I really don't see how this is "working on it."

Finally, there is this thread itself. People have posted threads like "Gragas is oversexualized lolol" and "Pentakill Olaf makes me hate my body, lololol," essentially mocking this whole issue. These threads had at least one Riot post within 10 pages, maximum, while this post has been completely ignored by any Riot posters.

As stated in an earlier post, this is the kind of post that should be responded to. This deserves a response from Riot, if only because we need to support more of this. Thoughtful, respectful posting.