@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

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MTaur

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenzoil View Post
I haven't read the whole thread, but I have read some of the stuff that Ironstylus has addressed in this thread. To me, what is being stated about character design is very interesting. And I like to see the thought process being made in the riot feedback.

I want to address specifically character designer about how they are pushing proportions over shapes and it would be helpful to go back to pushing the basic shapes: Triangles, Circles, and squares. If you go back to early female character their shapes were pushed immensely to tell the story of the character with their silhouette alone. As an example, I am going to compare MF to Zyra (Old good design vs New Bad design [shape wise]). MF is very well designed character and her shapes represents her personality. She is an energetic female that runs into action and displays her presence. In short, she is a very active female. The designers pushed an abundance of triangles onto her shape.
It's best to address this in a bullet point format, so the list is as follows:
-triangle hat
-triangle lip of her boots
-triangle boot point
-triangle cloth around her forearm
-triangle thigh (her knee is abnormally small)
-Her stomach is a triangle (wide hips, skinny ribs)
- All the pushed triangle shapes of her overall volume are pushing up into her face and out through her hat making a statement that she is outgoing person.
-To represent her sturdiness in the face of danger, her torso is squared and shock and aww are squarish cylinders.
MF is one of my favorite designed female champs. Also, she WAS well animated. I will address that when animation is a topic, till then I will stick with character DESIGN.

Now lets break down Zyra's personality and Design. Zyra is an old mythical creature that captured an unsuspecting victim and took over their body. Zyra is an introvert in nature because of her life as a plant, and she is a smart creature that plots out her actions and executes them. Her design makes her look extrovert, energetic and bland. It's going be hard to break down the shapes of this character because her design is muddy, so I will try to point out her overall shape:
-Square Stomach
-Square torso
-parallelogram thigh (they are kind triangle too, it's very confusing)
-parallelogram calves (they are kind triangle too, it's very confusing)(Also, the legs are too skinny for a character that has been "rooted" for most of it's life, If anything her legs should be much bigger then the rest of her body, not lankier)
-Squared bicep
-Triangle Forearm
- Roundish triangle thorns (a very bad decision on a sinister character)
-Triangle head (point downwards, a very strong decision about a character that is "rooted")
-Overall she is top heavy which is counter intuitive to her lore and her personality. I could be wrong, and that's a problem when it's not clear in the character design.

MF shows that the character designer made strong decisions about her shape and how the shape represents her personality. On the other hand, Zyra is a bad example of effective character design, it feels like strong decisions of her personality and shapes were note made, and it shows. I am sure you guys put equal amount of time into both. But it shows that the older champion design was asking all the right question, how can we convey her past and personality with shapes. And the new champions shows that the character designers were asking the wrong question, how could we make her more plant like? instead of how to tell the story of the character using shapes.

Also, stop making male character that are primarily V shaped torso.

Anyways, this is my two cents, and I hope it was clear. And, It's hard to write about the conceptual psychological property of shapes and how to correct character designs to reflect a stronger knowledge of the subject. On a personal note, I am currently delving deeper into my understanding of the topic myself.

TL;DR Please push the basic shapes of champions.
Ball, the Sentient Ball approves.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2634401

Attachment 538071


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Armed Weasel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

It's a team-based tactical fighting game that's rather competitive. If you play the game, you could suck, let your team down, and feel a bit ****ty for it. A lot of girls really do not like that aspect. Traditionally, guys deal with that stress better, for whatever reason.

Champion design is certainly part of what makes the game seem like it's "for guys", but the issue as a whole is a good bit more complex.


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lemonchief

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisLeGros View Post
Attachment 538055

Where are the women with short hair, you have no idea how much I loved this sketch of an early Diana when I saw you upload it to your blog. Sure we have Riven, but can I not want more?
This. And you forgot Fiora. Don't be disrespectful.

Edit: And I forgot Sej. NOW who is the disrespectful o---wait...


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-07-2012
58 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisLeGros View Post
Hopefully I catch the parrot before he goes to bed!
Attachment 538055

Where are the women with short hair, you have no idea how much I loved this sketch of an early Diana when I saw you upload it to your blog. Sure we have Riven, but I can want more can't I?

Glasses would also be cool (regardless of gender), Vayne pulls them off very well but out side of her and maybe a skin or two they aren't very prevalent in the game. Theodore Roosevelt wore glasses and kicked all kinds of ass.

One last comment. I know this thread was primarily focusing on the "human" champions, but what about the monsters? For female "monsters" you've only really got Anivia & Cassiopeia. You might be able to lump in Soraka (big Satyr influences in the design), Ahri (Kumiho/Kitsune) & Zyra (possibly some influence from modern fictional use of Alraunes), but they are pretty human in appearance. Why aren't things archetypes like Harpys, Arachne, Scylla, Siren, Slimes etc explored? Cassiopeia may be seen a failed foray with the lamia/medusa inspiration (I contend it is due to the hood and if Mythic Cassiopeia were the original base model she would have been received much more positively in terms of visuals), but are there any plans/possibilities of seeing another effort from Riot on this front?
1) Workin' on it.

2) Glasses? I agree with the Roosevelt thing.

3) The Bravo Ray has you covered, as does one of our newest concept artists, Gem.


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Opreich

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
.
Implying I come here more than you.


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Katie A Ratio

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed Weasel View Post
It's a team-based tactical fighting game that's rather competitive. If you play the game, you could suck, let your team down, and feel a bit ****ty for it. A lot of girls really do not like that aspect. Traditionally, guys deal with that stress better, for whatever reason.

Champion design is certainly part of what makes the game seem like it's "for guys", but the issue as a whole is a good bit more complex.
I was ready to strike up a righteous argument over the casual sexism of this post, but after reviewing your extensive sources, I can't help but be stymied. Good point, my friend.

(Startin' to feel that warm glow!)


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Omegafilter

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
2) Glasses? I agree with the Roosevelt thing.
I did like the monocle touch on gentleman cho any ideas to continue that line?


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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

10-07-2012

inb4 next champ is a giant female parrot.


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opreich View Post
Implying I come here more than you.
You do.
Besides, we both know where we both actually go, judging from your pics


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Daemon

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Original Ezreal had glasses! I really want his original costume to be worked into a new skin. Okay, there's PFE, but people don't really seem to like it because it went overboard.

http://www.fearlessgamer.com/wp-cont...nal_ezreal.jpg