@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eponet

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'm glad we changed that mentality.
It's not the mentality.

It's the fact that this was actually worded well, addresses rather than ignores common counterpoints, and defines what problematic areas are.

People seem to as a matter of principal disparage complaints made without backing. This post provided it and was thought out far better than others that have been made.

I've seen it on other topics too, where two opposing viewpoints are both heavily upvoted, not necessarily because the voters agree with what it's saying, but because they respect the approach that the poster took.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ChauclateThunder

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I love it when threads like this get made. So many opinions get thrown around and people either get proud or butt hurt. I support diversity in skins. To bad other fetishes may never make it into LoL but I can live with that. Some of those out there are way to much for a game like this. No one wants to see... Nvm, i'll just shut up now.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shaella

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerglinator View Post
well, if you want downvotes so badly...

I'll donate to a worthy cause.
uhg
yes
downvote me harder
mooore


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-07-2012
35 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulharvest View Post
Wow...
"You're a [stronger] man than I am son, and god damn do I respect you for it."
-General Namdraft from the webcomic Spacecat
That takes a lot of guts, even if you do now have a different view on your past actions. I truly believe that you care about your work now after reviewing how much time an effort you have put in to communicate your points to the community.

You have said that your views are not necessarily representative of the views of other rioters. If it isn't too much to ask, would you consider asking another Rioter whose job is relevant to the visual design of champions/skins? Even if they are unwilling to publicize their views on the subject, perhaps they could point out designs they respect and admire which are relevant to the topic at hand?
No, my view is pretty representative on a high-level allignment. Again, we believe in variety. What I think our main thing right now is that our backlog has been filled with pretty sexualized ladies. That will eventually peter out a bit and things will readjust. There will be movement but it probably won't be seen publicly for a bit. Internally we see a shift in the types of women we produce, and skins. THIS HOWEVER DOES NOT MEAN there will not be a healthy dose of sexualization where due, in either female or male form. I DO NOT MEAN sexualization in a derogatory sense, I mean sexualization in that it is sometimes fun to inject our desires into content. That taps into an emotion. Emotions are.. ya know.. important. They elicit responses. That goes for anything that elicits a reaction be it monstrous, evil, good, beautiful, etc.

I'm sort of the point man for bringing the public sentiment internally, so I'm probably not going to be able to get anyone on here specifically. However, the primary concept and character artists in charge of character content are of the same mindset as me, but again, we agree on variety. Things take time to cycle through the backlog and into release. This is why course correction is not immediate. When people ask.. "WHERE IS THE PROOF", well, Diana is a big pile of proof. If you know my dev diary about it, her inception and production took a while. Sejuani was in pre-production a year before she was released and I believe may have even been a concept from the original 40. Not 100% sure on that though. Our content can shift and our cadence might prove to produce a line of sexy women in one stint. This tends to oversaturate and make the problem more apparent. This happened with our release of several badass dudes also. That however is also out of the system for now.

Consensus wise, and these might be more archetypal, some designs we feel work when it comes to females (and this is going to be contrast-y because this is all dependent on context) are Miss Fortune, the new Katarina, Lux, the new Soraka, Ahri, Vayne, Leona, Riven, and a bunch of others. This means that these are widely agreed on as examples which are cohesive themes. Are some of them well covered? Yes. Are some of them busting out of their clothes? Yes. Are some in armor? Yes. Are some in elegant dress or next to nothing? Yes. Because this is all about context. If theme is cohesive, the character works.

There are a lot more successes, and indeed some failures that we agree on.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-07-2012
36 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
It helps that Ironstylus has begun legitimating this sort of discussion and even pushing for change in female art design.

Now we just brace for the inevitable backlash from gamers who either don't understand or don't care about the issue.
Hah! Ninja'd, Didn't see this until now.

I'm glad we've helped change the dialogue. This is an issue that will not go away and I will continue to push on it because I feel this is the way things will trend. Respect, diversity, variety and new ideas are what makes content creation fresh. As content developers with a vast IP and a large pulpit we can change minds and usher in ideas, which at the time may be different, will prove to remain fresh and iconic in the long run.

Let the backlash come, I'm ready.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shaella

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Hah! Ninja'd, Didn't see this until now.

I'm glad we've helped change the dialogue. This is an issue that will not go away and I will continue to push on it because I feel this is the way things will trend. Respect, diversity, variety and new ideas are what makes content creation fresh. As content developers with a vast IP and a large pulpit we can change minds and usher in ideas, which at the time may be different, will prove to remain fresh and iconic in the long run.

Let the backlash come, I'm ready.
Would you say that 'your body is ready'?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-07-2012
37 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudieken View Post
I'm gonna have to call you out on this one, parrot. The new Soraka art really upset me the first time I saw her. She looks NOTHING like the old Soraka. To me, the new one is just really "bleh".

Don't get me wrong, the model, the animations, the particles, etc. are all top-notch.

I just feel like her facial features just aren't as distinguished at all, really. I used to be able to picture her as having a lot of wisdom, and having a nurturing, warm personality just from looking at her splash and hearing her voice.

She looks like a teenager now. That's all I really have to say. I don't get that vibe anymore. She's just...there.
Yeah, when I talk about Soraka I am referring ONLY to the in-game model. I do have some issues with the splash but that's a department that has a handle on the situation and has made great strides recently in quality.

They deserve nothing but the highest of praise with the task they are tackling in things that aren't even widely known externally. They deserve a world of credit and I wish people would consider how hard they work, how monumental their task is, how passionate they are and how brilliant their work is executed. They will continue to iterate just like us all. Everyone needs to give them room to grow and settle. They need to be given some slack.

The last thing I need to bug them about is that I think the bridge of her nose needs to be thicker. Those guys are powerhouses and I don't want to screw with them =)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aliceandria

Senior Member

10-07-2012

"Feminine sexuality is such a big thing we tend to ignore. I play the game since I enjoy it not because the splash art offends me. Why does Varus get to be shirtless, but not Morgana? This seems unfair." Actual quote from my girlfriend. I personally am not commenting on this.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Empyrius

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Honestly, I believe it is easier to sexualize the female body than the male body. Male bodies only have so much they can do that can make them in a sexual manner. Society as a whole promotes female sexuality while men's is somewhat more suppressed.

I am happy with most costumes in the game. It doesn't matter that some of them are borderline super sexualized. Most are decent and just for fun. I have seen many women go to costume parties with much less and much showing than any of the costumes that show in game.

Point im trying to make, dont blame Riot, blame society.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-07-2012
38 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
Would you say that 'your body is ready'?
My mind is stronger =)