@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Pistrik

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I'm curious ironstylus. Is this more pandering towards the vast minority that want something like this? I'm having a difficult time seeing where the signals are coming from, due to how mixed they are.

In a way, I agree with the OP. Yes, we could use some more variety on the female archetypes. However, as a player and a guy, do I want to play a female Mundo? No... not really. At the very least, I would like to be given the option to change her look via the skins. I don't consider myself as someone who plays champions BECAUSE they are sexy, but attractive yes.

I spoke earlier in a thread (I believe it was about Diana) where someone made this exact same argument the OP did, though it was more arguing about sexy champions than making a variety of said champions. In this, I stated that yes... Diana was a well made champion. Her armor fit her story, and she still seemed somewhat attractive in her base skin. I also remember the fallout received due to people saying her alternate skins was "sexy". My opinion on that was....So? Skins are there to provide a different perspective on champions. Whereas a champions base skin may not be attractive in a sense (Diana), an alternate skin would provide this avenue for people that would like something more attractive.

This is my belief. Yes, make champions that are varied. Make a barbarian woman, or something of the sort. But commit to making the skins as something that offers a varied view. Do what you with with Diana. Somewhat attractive base skin, attractive off skin. What someone said above does apply: *** sells. Or in this case, how attractive the champion is to the person buying it. And not to marginalize, but the percent of people who wish for champions to be fully covered like a nun are very small, compared to the rest of the game. But I understand that you have to make things for all players, not just one subset. Hence my above belief.

If Riot can do that, then I will continue buying champions.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteglint3 View Post
ha, there are more skin tones in this game than possible through the entire human spectrum.

just because one isn't explicitly brown doesn't matter, there are BLUE, GREEN AND PURPLE PEOPLE, GREY, WHITE, DARK GREEN, ect.

the "ethnic" backgrounds do not exist in League's Lore, there is no Africa, there still can be a black champion, or black people, but there are no set races shown other than White, Asian, and "middle eastern" (not really a race, but a skin tone).

my point is that Affirmitive Actioning in a Granny, because the Rad-Fem demand it is more sexist than not doing it, just as doing so with the Black champions and the demand for a Black person in the game, it doesn't have to be done.

there doesn't have to be a quota filled with every skin color and sexual oreintation just because you demand it to be so.
A fair points about the use of varied fantastic skin tones. But with so many Runeterran climates straight out of Africa and South America, they still couldn't be bothered to trace that to its logical conclusion.

Also, nothing you said undermines my point. Your argument is based on the fallacious premise that old ladies and dark-skinned champions have no place in this game, and therefore have to be forced in by affirmative action or left out. That should not be the case.


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Whiteglint3

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaafGrohiik View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OdQ...eature=related

OP and their supporters should watch this.
not really a good video, mostly just for humor.

the real discussions on this problem are discussed by quite a few people though.

though this issue is separate (sort of) to what feminism has become, and what OP basically represents, the hyper-control freak who is never pleased, demands that are met are ignored and they move onto a new topic with which to demand new things.

I concede victory to them, they won, I now take the position of the bitter person who mocks them for their insanity.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Just reminding people that there's a ton of creative space between generic supermodels in pinup poses and Lady Gragas, and that it's perfectly possible to design attractive female characters without sexualizing them.


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Whiteglint3

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
A fair points about the use of varied fantastic skin tones. But with so many Runeterran climates straight out of Africa and South America, they still couldn't be bothered to trace that to its logical conclusion.

Also, nothing you said undermines my point. Your argument is based on the fallacious premise that old ladies and dark-skinned champions have no place in this game, and therefore have to be forced in by affirmative action or left out. That should not be the case.
WRROOOONG you cannot read, THANK YOU FOR PLAYING.

I said FORCING said champions is racist/sexist, said champions should be put in the game through Riots free will to do so.

I NEVER, NEVER SAID THOSE CHAMPIONS SHOULD NOT EXIST, YOU ******.


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chumbler

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
Just reminding people that there's a ton of creative space between generic supermodels in pinup poses and Lady Gragas, and that it's perfectly possible to design attractive female characters without sexualizing them.
That's correct, but female characters (and male characters) shouldn't have to be attractive.


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Grand Eleven

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Devil's Advocate:

OP says she doesn't want to remove sexualized champs, just bring some balance into it. But is she really saying there would be no uproar if Riot released a grandma ... a barbarian woman ... some other random champ .... then a former *** slave support champ who's "buffing" abilities involve servicing the ADC and who's ultimate "stuns" everyone in view when she performs her strip tease?

We're OK with sexualization if it fits the character right as long as it doesn't classify majority of champs?


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GaafGrohiik

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteglint3 View Post
not really a good video, mostly just for humor.

the real discussions on this problem are discussed by quite a few people though.

though this issue is separate (sort of) to what feminism has become, and what OP basically represents, the hyper-control freak who is never pleased, demands that are met are ignored and they move onto a new topic with which to demand new things.

I concede victory to them, they won, I now take the position of the bitter person who mocks them for their insanity.
you didn't watch the whole thing.

it was meant to show how any argument in support of feminism is inherently flawed.

however, you were completely correct in your analysis of the OP. I don't exactly see how they won, though...


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Whiteglint3

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
That's correct, but female characters (and male characters) shouldn't have to be attractive.
they "shouldn't have to be" anything.

that doesn't mean Riot can't make them all attractive if they want, your conflicting points of both varied designs, and designs "not having to be" something are hilarious.

its obvious you just want things to go the way you think, to conform to your demands, you childish person.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteglint3 View Post
WRROOOONG you cannot read, THANK YOU FOR PLAYING.

I said FORCING said champions is racist/sexist, said champions should be put in the game through Riots free will to do so.

I NEVER, NEVER SAID THOSE CHAMPIONS SHOULD NOT EXIST, YOU ******.
So in your viewpoint, the only correct option for a non-racist person is to shut up and take whatever Riot decides to dole out, and never present ideas for new and varied champions. Because of course when people ask for a granny champion it's sexist affirmative action by RadFems forcing Riot to make a particular type of champion, but when Battle Bunny Riven gets made it's just Riot going with a great community-driven idea. And pointing out this incongruity makes me a ******, hm? Your own biases blind you, bro.