@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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GaafGrohiik

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Someshta View Post
I completely agree with your analysis of skins and splash art, I just don't understand how the graphic design of champions connects to girls feeling unwelcome. Do you think splash art which objectifies female champions creates an atmosphere which promotes objectification of the actual female summoners? Would that objectification also somehow lead to the marginalization of female summoners you mentioned?

Is any male summoner able to see the appearance of any female summoner? Any objectification or marginalization that happens on the summoner level would happen regardless of graphic design. It would happen simply because there are men who objectify and marginalize women.

So you are actually arguing two separate points, each with their own cause and solution, and you need to make a choice. You could argue that the graphic design of champions objectifies women and is offensive to female summoners and address this argument to the art department, or you could argue that female summoners feel unwelcome in the community because of abusive actions from male summoners and address that to the HR department.

I believe the two are arguments mutually exclusive, I believe there is evidence to support both arguments, and from my perspective (male summoner) I believe only the abusive nature of male summoners should be addressed. I love girls, and girls should be able to love LoL...and then they should love me ;-)
this made a lot of sense.


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get dat birdman

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
Fitness models are kind of their own thing. They are marketed at people of their own *** as a "this could be if you buy my product" type of thing. Female fitness models usually have ripped abs and are more muscular than what most guys would usually go for. They would not be cast as the lead in a romantic comedy for example, because people don't view them that way. The standard I would use for male beauty are the type of models you would see on billboards for Calvin Klein or Abercrombie & Fitch. Those guys are marketed with *** appeal in mind. Fitness models are not.
Whatever differences there are, they are still models. Again, you CANNOT - I repeat, CANNOT - discount something just because it doesn't justify your opinions. Models, interestingly, fit multiple body types as well! And usually, a model as a whole wouldn't be cast as the lead in a romantic comedy because they're a model, not an actor. So, honestly, I don't understand your point with this paragraph. That because fitness models don't fit your standard, they are somehow not models? That because they don't cater to your tastes, they don't cater to anyone's tastes? You say you try to look at this objectively, but this just shows how subjectively you are making your points. Just because they are not your tastes does not mean they don't cater to a taste. Different people have different standards of beauty, so again, you CANNOT imply that your taste overrides everyone else's. Just because it is your opinion, does not mean it is the only one, or the right one.

Quote:
Soraka suffers from the brokeback trope that women in comics and games often do. Battle Bunny Riven would not wear a fetish outfit to battle if she wasn't interested in that kind of attention. Also she is posing to show off her ass. It's blatantly sexual. The weapons they are wielding could just as easily be props in their Top Model photo shoot.
Okay, so where exactly did I deny that you wouldn't practically wear a bunny suit to battle? Oh, right, I DIDN'T deny it. Please read my post and respond to the points made there. She also looks like she's mid-jump. Kind of hard to pose in mid-air, wouldn't you agree? Yeah, the skin is a fanservice, but 1. she still has a big ass sword, and 2. the one skin is not all that Riven is. None of her other skins - NONE OF THE OTHER FOUR SKINS - are overtly sexual. Yet you insist that this ONE SKIN exemplifies Riven, and is everything wrong with the champion. Don't you see how this logic is wrong? Oh, and the America's Top Model prop thing? Please. You have a game where people go into battle shirtless, use magic, use gems as a source of armor, and you want to say that this is a prop? Did you look at the rest of the splash? Swain and the other guy (in the foreground) are obviously shying away from the Riven with the giant sword. Don't try to insist that this is some sort of prop. If it was a prop, they'd have no cause to be ducking away from the woman with a sword.

Quote:
Male runway models can be skinny or muscular, but they never get anywhere near the proportions of Tryndamere or PK Olaf. Fitness models might, but fitness models are selling workout machines. When they use the really bulky fitness models, the target demographic is most likely bodybuilders.
Again, I have known people who would see Varus as a bodybuilder. The point is, you are still trying to make generalizations about things based solely on your opinion. And I've seen very few male runway models that are very muscular. Even less so with advertisements in magazines and billboards, etc. Fashion models are all about tall and (generally) thin. There are fashion models of both genders who do not fit that stereotype, but it's generally rare in both cases. As well, not all fitness models are huge bodybuilder types. So, really, it just goes to show that in some things you are being rather ignorant of facts, and again, basing things on your opinion.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaafGrohiik View Post
Oh no - I get it. You think all the females in the game all look the same - attractive (because some people find DRAWINGS attractive, apparently) and overly-seductive, with armor that doesn't make sense for combat.

First of all - the only ones I'd agree on are Akali (the sideboob is pretty vicious- and a ninja should be armored) and Zyra (she's a plant, but a really ****ty plant).

All of the other ones are casters/assassins/support characters that do not need armor, and whatever they wear makes sense for their roles.

It was the artists' choices to have cleavage, curvy figures or "come **** me" eyes. I think you have zero grounds whatsoever to attack the artists' creative license.
And how does "Soraka is a goat" invalidate it again? I very clearly defined the adult human champions as people with enough human attributes, not people that are fully human. I'd have to take Varus and Ryze off the list if I removed Soraka, and they are two of the strongest counterarguments in your arsenal. Do you really want that?


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Whiteglint3

Senior Member

10-07-2012

the OP (and defenders) are trying to bring subjective opinions into the realm of Objectivity.

what makes someone "sexy" is entirely subjective, you cannot use it as a basis of argument.

not to mention the fallacy that sexy=sexist, a woman can dress nearly completely naked and not be "sexist" for doing so, and since these are fictional polygon "women" it holds even less water, if OP is going to fluidly change the definition of Sexist/sexism then I get to change the definition of "idiot" and put just a picture of her there.

and really, there is no win here, i've seen how Radical Feminists react to getting what they want, they move on to something else to upheave, whether the problem is real or imagined, they are not satiated by getting the problem fixed, there will always be a flaw in the "fix", it will never be enough.

to put it cheekily, you can NEVER "Check your male privilege" enough, we could make every single female in League wear full armor and all be completely unique (and a few fat ones, because you have to embrace obesity as "beauty" in Rad-Fem) and now we are sexist because they are all "forced" to wear "too much" clothing.

while i'm all for equality (in fact, I demand it, women should be drafted/sign up for the draft just like men) Radical Feminists are all for splitting hairs, they don't care about womens rights in the middle east and Africa, they don't care about the big issues, they are all mostly middle/middle upper class women and their husbands who have never been "oppressed" or any of that their entire lives and now want to nitpick every facet of socieity and use broad, impossible to refute arguements on why everything is sexist and part of the Illuminati-esque "Patriarchy".


i'll bet you 10 dollars that OP is some College chick in the standard feminist courses, now trying to denouce the evil's of men's subjugation


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteglint3 View Post
i'll bet you 10 dollars that OP is some College chick in the standard feminist courses, now trying to denouce the evil's of men's subjugation
Should I give you my PayPal info? How do you want to send me the money?


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Gardonazorph

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

I liked the Frostblade Irelia skin a lot. (not for the *** appeal i assure you), but the impracticality of it i noticed was that it has heels on it. I was disappointed when i found this out -_-


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardonazorph View Post
I liked the Frostblade Irelia skin a lot. (not for the *** appeal i assure you), but the impracticality of it i noticed was that it has heels on it. I was disappointed when i found this out -_-
I dislike it because the head looks freakishly large. People tend to think *** appeal means I automatically hate it, which is not true at all. I was just making a list.


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunxlinger View Post
What im trying to say is that the few keys to identifying a fencer are present in the splash. The first things you observe are those which strike you as different. And those things are what are included in the splash.
In fact can you explain how it is sexualized? You cant see any cleavage. You cant see her behind and most of her chest is hidden. She is clothed up to her neck. And her pose resembles 90% of the google search images for fencing.
Oh FFS.

Here are some reasonable sword-and-dagger fencing poses that you can find with Google Image Search, since you keep mentioning it.

http://baitedblade.com/sites/default...gger%20web.jpg
http://the1595.com/images/sword-and-dagger1.jpg
https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/pe1526/rapier1.jpg

Notice how the leading hand and leading foot match. Notice how their swords are always held either in front of their body, or across the front of their body. Notice how the shoulders are always in the same approximate orientation as the hips. ALL OF THESE THINGS are wrong in the Fiora art, and if you actually try to pose like Fiora, left foot forward, right shoulder leading, and sword sticking way out to the right, you will rapidly realize how utterly absurd the position is.


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Ginga

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Recruiter

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardonazorph View Post
I liked the Frostblade Irelia skin a lot. (not for the *** appeal i assure you), but the impracticality of it i noticed was that it has heels on it. I was disappointed when i found this out -_-
...you know, the whole entire concept of Irelia is pretty impractical to begin with. >.>


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunxlinger View Post
I dont see her 'assets' anywhere. Just an armoured portion of her breasts which is impossible to hide unless you want ALL female champions in burqa...
http://ejbron.files.wordpress.com/20...urqa-women.jpg
At this point I must recommend you find a new pair of eyes, as yours appear to have ceased functioning. You may want to consult a physician.