@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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GG Crono

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Speaking as a majority here (that is, a white male), I fully support any and all efforts by Riot to promote greater diversity in female forms in this game. True, they haven't had the best track record in the past... but that's not entirely their fault. They have a lot of cultural conditioning pushing them forward, and it can be hard to unlearn that stuff.

But when they have people like IronStylus on their team, I know that they can be better if given the chance. I look forward to seeing greater things from the ladies of LoL in the future.


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burntendz

Senior Member

10-07-2012

More male support characters? Maybe?

-sniffle sniffle-


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Also Mantalizard

Member

10-07-2012

I'm very impressed at the amount of research you put into this debate. It's nice to see people who actually care enough about their opinion to go and support, not just make up random BS. I doubt you're terribly interested in an argument about sexualization outside of the human characters, but if an example could be brought up in that section I'd have to say Renekton's taunt, in which he lays down in the same pose as the splash art for Santa Gragas. While this isn't exactly a big deal, it's an argument at least partially towards the male spectrum.


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Ghost Story

Junior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Holy **** that was a lot of well composed, extremely well thought-out points and a lot of data to back it up. I very much salute you! This is the stuff that's actually super useful for people like me in a position to help define our body types. I love this information and this amount of it because I can look and be like.. "Oh hey, I think I see where we can fill in some gaps!" You've actually saved me some work, and I owe you a coffee.

Funny thing is that a very nice young lady came and talked to me on the floor of the finals about this very same issue. She made similar points which I.. ya know.. agreed with, like I tend to on these subjects. That said, I don't think I can possibly address the entirely of this pose aside from stating what I've stated before. I believe we need to have breadth, depth and contrast in our characters. We need to have archetypal characters and non-conventional. This goes the same for body types, in this particular case, female body types.

Recently I've been doing some core exploratory work on our champions, past and present. I've developed an even more concrete belief that we need to vary female forms as our game angle requires pretty drastic differentiation in proportions between characters, especially females, to make them truly read as different. Right now, on paper, many of our females read differently, but when plugged into game angle they read as very similar body types. Diana, though having a pretty curvy lower body (larger thighs) and trimmer upper body with smaller breasts still looks in the same general category as Syndra though she's pretty overall standard voluptuous. My bad there. I might have pushed proportions on Diana even further. In fact, I'd like to go back to Diana and push proportions. I think we've standardized our females far too much, producing mainly costume changes. I really want us to focus on stylizing our females as much as we do with our males.

Make no mistake, this is something we have our eye on. I had a discussion with our Art Director about this issue just the other day. We want that barbarian woman who can smash any guy she might encounter, we want us to get the spindly tank-girl type who's far less exposed, we want utilitarian, we want majestic, we want creepy, we want it all. We also do want sexy, in all it's variations.

You also brought up something in there interesting about Varus. He is one of the only examples we have of a different take on males. We tend to make our males of sort of three types. Athletic, Heroic, or Hulk. So, Singed, Garen, and Mundo respectively. That generalization but there you have it. Varus hits a great sweet spot. He's quite androgynous, a bit more anime archetype. He's sleek, trim and mildly feminine, but dang is that ever sexy as far as I’m concerned! Basically, anything Riot Taco Storm can cosplay as is something I'd really love to have more experiments like.

I’m not quite sure I’ve hit on all or any of your points aside from providing you an assurance that we’re taking a hard look at our champions and some stuff is going to change as we go. As always I’d love to keep this conversation going and see what more points come up in this thread. I apologize for not hitting everything but I’ve just gotten back from the finals which has been a rigorous thing today to say the least. I’m a little hug-drunk right now.

I really, REALLY appreciate all the hard work and analysis you put into this. It has certainly not gone unnoticed! This is information that I like to act on and I thank you for it!

I'll try to hit on more points in smaller doses.
Here is a idea, Give Rauhel 1 Male stripper style skin that you think someone like her would want. Then look at the sales data.. If it sells well then there is your answer if it dose not sell well then there is your answer.

Make those who are in favor of "balance" Put their money where their mouth is, because it seems to me that those who are in favor of things like the new miss fortune splash art are BUYING it and its supporting Riot.

(I have only read the first 50 or so pages in so if someone else has covered this I apologize)

On a secondary note I take Offense that Rauhel, who brings up a gender topic, assumes that Most players are "(straight white male)" And ignores that League is played around the world by many Races. This Ignores the racial diversity we see in the championships and the fact that Riot is expanding into China. That person has issues and Riot will never be able to satisfy them because bigots will never stop their Hate.


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Jusek

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
See, my problem with this is that the Door of Sexism (new item for S3?) ends up smacking Sejuani again if you change her. It ends up saying (to me anyways), "Only a MAN can withstand the colds of the Freljord with no shirt on! A woman cannot be that strong!" And since Sejuani is my number two favorite champion...this would bother me to NO END.
That's a perfectly legitimate statement. I wasn't saying it's wrong to have scantily clad women, but the OP was showing that most of the women that are humanoids are scantily clad. If all women are in bikinis, and there's a girl in a bikini in winter, no statement is really being made since you expect women to wear bikinis in all situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scykz View Post
Complaining about sexualized female champions (regardless of number) then asking why there aren't any male equivalents is counterintuitive.
It comes down to balance and equality as it is perceived to the fans. I think the intention of the OP was to point out that equality can mean objectifying both sexes, however JUST objectifying women says that part of their social role is to remain eye candy while men can be heroes, hulks, or gallant.

And to the heroes, hulks, and gallant folk, it's also more equal to have women hulking out or being the ideal banner of justice for a kingdom. Or being awesome enough to wear underwear in the freezing cold while others button up at normal temps.

Just for the record, while I think it's cool this is being talked about, I don't care as much as might be coming across. I really just like the discussion.


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Jusek

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st Death View Post
Being a female gamer, I could give a sh*t less how the Riot community treats me. They rarely know I'm a woman in the first place. I mean, come on, look how they treat each other? If you aren't a white male, you're doomed. Such is life! If you don't want to hear the bs.. a neutral name will help period. I'm talking to women, people from other countries, etc. Oh & the skins? They are fine! You would be insulted if they were anything else.
See if apathy gets equality, then clothing should. Garen in bikini?

New: Accessory Garen

Garen comes with a whole new line of purses and makeup!

Courage: Garen removes his armor and puts on a dress, permanently increasing his armor and magic resistance by 20%.


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Karolina

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by burntendz View Post
More male support characters? Maybe?

-sniffle sniffle-
Like say... Angus ? :P


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Acton Elwood

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

10-07-2012

I think this video has some relevance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-rTu...ure=plpp_video


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Icy Unicorn

Junior Member

10-07-2012

we need a granny in the league!

she could be an old hug , looking like the evil old witches from fairy tales(mid laner or support) ex. image1

or she could be a more modern idea of strong old woman often seen in anime who will be a melee champ. e.x image 2


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Nimmock

Junior Member

10-07-2012

The actual figures of the women and personalities aren't the issue here. The problem is the occasional revealing costuming and the posing of the splash art. I think a lot of the problem with the idea of over-sexualized characters is that in most of their splash art you see very typical comic-book babe poses, with large breasts, big lips and eyes, and shapely bottoms. All thrust into focus.

Think of it this way; if someone's getting the kind of exercise fighting gives you, they're going to be in shape. I refer you to a google image search of women martial artists. These women look good. Most of them could probably hit harder than most of the people posting on this forum, but they still look healthy, lithe, and sexy.

Here's another example taken from a recent film's movie poster. Same deal.

Another good example of what I'm talking about in League is Irelia. She's armored, sexy, and deadly. On her default skin, she's got intricate armoring covering all of her body except for one of her most vulnerable areas: her upper chest and neck. From a logical standpoint... That's pretty stupid. Yes, I get that some women have used revealing outfits to give them an advantage in combat, but that is only a reliable trick when fighting untrained opponents. A perfect example of what that kind of simple change can make is her Infiltrator skin. She's still pretty, lithe and sexy, but her chest is covered. She looks deadly, and not at all sexualized. The same COULD be said of her Frostblade skin because of it's wonderful design, but unfortunately the splash art has her sticking her bottom at the focus in a typical backbreaker pose.