New Item = Avarice + Executioners

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cerabrete2

Member

10-03-2012

I would like to propose a new item that is built from Avarice Blade and Executioners calling. Avarice Blade so far is the only gp10 item that does not build into two items. My reasoning for using Executioners Calling as the other item is that it is a underused mid-game item that if it had an end-game recipe would be seen in more games.

Recipe
Executioners Calling(1350) + Avarice Blade(750) + 750gold = NEW ITEM(2850)


Base Stats
30% critical strike chance
18% life steal


These come mostly from the executioners calling and avarice blade. Just added an extra 2%crit for completing the recipe.

Unique Passive
On-hit, you cause 15 magic damage per second for 3 seconds.


Executioners has a passive that is on-hit, you cause 4 magic damage per second for 8 seconds. Most people don't notice this as the damage is pathetic. Its total damage over the whole duration(32) is less than for 1 hit of wit's end. I wanted to make this have a more immediate effect. It now does 45 damage, but over a shorter amount of time. Since its still a DoT, it does not depend on number of attacks, just that there was an attack.

Unique Active
For 6 second gain 50% critical strike damage and auto-attacks apply Grievous Wound, causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 4 seconds. 60 second cooldown.


This active will be the main benefit you will receive finishing the recipe. It keeps the grievous wounds from executioners calling, but now it is applied the on-hit like with the old executioners active. The extra critical strike damage synergizes will the increase crit chance this item provides. I want this to be the extra punch this item needs to compete with other items.

I would really like to hear people’s opinions on this idea. I would like to like to know what you think about the cost, the damage and duration of the passive, and the value's for the active. Do you think it is OK to give this item crit damage and if yes how much? What do you think are underpowered or overpowered and why?

I appreciate your feedback.

Lasts updated 10/7/12.
I will continue to make small changes based on your feedback.

Please bump if you support me.


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Izacer

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Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerabrete2 View Post
Recipe
Executioners Calling(1350) + Avarice Blade(750) + 750gold = NEW ITEM(2850)


Base Stats
30% critical strike chance
20% life steal


These come mostly from the executioners calling and avarice blade. Just added an extra 2%crit and 2%life steal for completing the recipe.

Unique Passive
On-hit, you cause 15 magic damage per second for 4 seconds.


Unique Active
For 10 second gain 50% critical strike damage and auto-attacks apply Grievous Wound, causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 4 seconds. 60 second cooldown.


This active will be the main benefit you will receive finishing the recipe. It keeps the grievous wounds from executioners calling, but now it is applied the on-hit like with the old executioners active. The extra critical strike damage synergizes will the increase crit chance this item provides. I want this to be the extra punch this item needs to compete with other items. Right now the only item that provides crit damage is infinity edge so I chose 50% since this is active and for a limited duration.
I would like to like to know what you think about the cost
I think the cost is fine.

the damage and duration of the passive
15 dps for 4s = 60 Magic damage, up from 32. As you pointed out the damage before was less than wits end, but I don't think this damage would be the selling point. As for the duration I think keeping it at 8 seconds would be a good idea. Since the main thing will be the active you could probably change the passive to 7 damage per tick for 8 seconds (56 total).

and the value's for the active.
I think the active duration could be 8 seconds, because 10 seconds seems like it would be to long.

Do you think it is OK to give this item crit damage and if yes how much?
I think crit damage is fine, but the amount should be lowered. Perhaps 25% crit damage so that it doesn't become a "Must Buy" for every AD carry, like IE/PD have become.

What do you think are underpowered or overpowered and why?
I think that giving this item to much crit damage would make it overpowered, as building this, IE and PD would give 85% crit chance with 300% crit damage.


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Irelia Bot

Member

10-03-2012

I don't see much that is really wrong with it but I would reduce the duration if the Grievous Wounds being applied to 5 seconds instead of 10. If you are using the active then you should be using it for a reason say stopping Xin from healing so he is easier to kill. not using it to stop xin then using it to shut down mundo and the ADC from healing.


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Lyrdian

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerabrete2 View Post
I would like to propose a new item that is built from Avarice Blade and Executioners calling. Avarice Blade so far is the only gp5 item that does not build into two items. My reasoning for using Executioners Calling as the other item is that it is a underused mid-game item that if it had an end-game recipe would be seen in more games.

Recipe
Executioners Calling(1350) + Avarice Blade(750) + 750gold = NEW ITEM(2850)


Base Stats
30% critical strike chance
20% life steal


These come mostly from the executioners calling and avarice blade. Just added an extra 2%crit and 2%life steal for completing the recipe.

Unique Passive
On-hit, you cause 15 magic damage per second for 4 seconds.


Executioners has a passive that is on-hit, you cause 4 magic damage per second for 8 seconds. Most people don't notice this as the damage is pathetic. Its total damage over the whole duration(32) is less than for 1 hit of wit's end. I wanted to make this contribute more to the damage so I increased the damage per second, but also decreased the duration so the total damage wasn't too high.

Unique Active
For 10 second gain 50% critical strike damage and auto-attacks apply Grievous Wound, causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 4 seconds. 60 second cooldown.


This active will be the main benefit you will receive finishing the recipe. It keeps the grievous wounds from executioners calling, but now it is applied the on-hit like with the old executioners active. The extra critical strike damage synergizes will the increase crit chance this item provides. I want this to be the extra punch this item needs to compete with other items. Right now the only item that provides crit damage is infinity edge so I chose 50% since this is active and for a limited duration.

I would really like to hear people’s opinions on this idea. I would like to like to know what you think about the cost, the damage and duration of the passive, and the value's for the active. Do you think it is OK to give this item crit damage and if yes how much? What do you think are underpowered or overpowered and why?

I appreciate your feedback.

Please up vote if you support me.
Just like to point out, Heart of gold also only builds into one item.

Overall:
Cost: up it to 2950, not much but for some reason the cost just feels low.

Stats: Crit is fine, lifesteal i s a bit high. its the same as a fully stacked bloodthirster, maybe 18% for balancing? Can't remember exactly what EC's stats are

Unique Passive: 5 dmg ea/sec for 5 seconds (no damage on each hit, just adds the 'bleed'), stacking 3 times. Each stack reduces healing the enemy champion receives by 4% for the duration (12% basically). Windup time to your full stack damage makes it a less attractive item for someone like Kog where their aim is to kill you in 3-10 hits, but still scales well for traditional on-hit champs like teemo.

Unique Active: Stacks have X2 effect (so 10 dmg ea/sec 5 seconds stacking 3 times, 24% reduced healing) and the damage done is given to the attacker as healing. 75 second CD and lasts for 10 Powerful but again is more useful for bruiser's who are building more defense than offense, tanks or on-hit users like teemo who would adore this thing. The healing reduction is lower but lasts longer (and heals you fort he damage the item does) Longer cd to attempt to balance it out


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Certified

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Just like to point out, Heart of Gold builds into two items...


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cerabrete2

Member

10-05-2012

Thanks for all the helpful feedback. Here are my thoughts on some of the things people have mentioned.

Base Stats
The base stats provided from the unfinished item are 28% crit chance and 18% lifesteal.
Giving the finished item 30% crit shouldn't be too much of a problem, but the lifesteal iis pretty high at 20%, since this what max stacks of bloodthirster gives. I will consider changing it to 18%

Unique Passive
Lyrdian had the idea of making this able to stack. I was actually considering this for a while, but then decided against it because it makes it too much like they old teemo toxic shot. Even though it is DoT the damage start becoming dependant on the number of times that you attack. This item does not offer any attack speed like other items with similar on-hit effects. Right now the damage depends more on that fact that you are attacking than how much. Maybe a way to have it benefit from crit would be cool. I have an idea for this I will share in the end of my post. As for the damage I think its important to have the damage per second be higher so that has a more immediate impact on fights. I'd much rather reduce the total damage threw lowering the duration since it seems a bit high.

Unique Active
The main point I am getting is the duration is way too high and I agree. An active should be used to have an immediate impact and the timing of its use should matter. To fix this I am thinking a duration of 6-8sec should be sufficient. As for the crit damage, it is also a too high. It shouldn't be on the same level as IE, but I think 25% is too low though. The active only lasts a limited time so it should have some impact. If the damage increase is hardly noticeable why are you using the active? 35-40% should be sufficient for this.

Possible Rework on the Active/Passive
This is an alternative that could be used instead of the above active and passive. It benefits from crit chance, but strays away from crit damage.

Passive : On critical strike you cause 8 magic damage per second over 6 seconds(stacks 3 times)

Active: Autoattacks cause 15(0.15 per bonus attack damage)magic damage and Grievous Wounds over 8 seconds for 4 seconds. Cooldown 60seconds

It ends up being 120(1.2 x bonus AD) over the entire duration. The AD ratio can be changed to flat damage but this should be enough of an incentive to use the item. I the AD ratio can be scraped. I was aiming for 15-45 damage per second so 120-360 total.


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Sonic Nova

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I like the buffed crit strike damage, but 10 seconds with every autoattack applying grievous wound? ADCs would abuse the hell out of this item and start building nothing but Phantom Dancers and crit strike damage increasing runes. The main ADC that comes to mind when thinking of a build like this would be Yi, he would be able to backdoor even more easily than he's renowned for, and if he built one Bloodthirster with 4 PDs and a Berserker's Grieves he'd be healing over half his HP with each hit and he'd destroy teamfights by almost one-hitting by that point, not forgetting his ultimate either.


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cerabrete2

Member

10-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Nova View Post
I like the buffed crit strike damage, but 10 seconds with every autoattack applying grievous wound? ADCs would abuse the hell out of this item and start building nothing but Phantom Dancers and crit strike damage increasing runes. The main ADC that comes to mind when thinking of a build like this would be Yi, he would be able to backdoor even more easily than he's renowned for, and if he built one Bloodthirster with 4 PDs and a Berserker's Grieves he'd be healing over half his HP with each hit and he'd destroy teamfights by almost one-hitting by that point, not forgetting his ultimate either.
Currently if I want to get a lot of crit I get an IE and two PD. This gives me 85% crit which is high enough. This item would give you the same crit as a PD so you could get it instead of one of those PD. They cost around the same too.

The tradeoff is 20% life steal and the crit damage form the active for the 15%movement speed and 55%attack speed. I think this a fair tradeoff. Do you?

The disadvantage of getting all these items is they are all damage items. Like the build i currently use, you have no defensive stats and are very squishy and easy to kill. Even if you have a lot of life steal, one stun and you die instantly.

I agree about the duration being too long. I just reduced it to 6 seconds.

I like that you brought up some of the complimentary items for this, since it will help us predict how people will use it. But, I don't think you should be put so much emphasis on the end-game build. The time of the game you buy the item and what other items you have are important too. Do you want to buy this item 1st? 2nd? 3rd? etc.? This is important in determining its effectiveness and strength. The 1st item makes a much bigger impact than the 6th, which you will hardly get in a game. Also the cost of you end game build is also important. One build may be stronger and more ideal, but the cost it too much and so people will tend to get other items.


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Zeratoph

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Junior Member

10-21-2012

Yeah! Sounds like a cool idea.