Farming Mechanic Advice

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Micksterzone

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Junior Member

10-22-2012

Hello!
I have been playing League of Legends for a while now, and I'm steady in the 1250 bracket or so. I would like to get better at last hitting, as i generally have 60-80cs by 11 minutes, and I would like this to be higher.

In a lane where both players are passive, and especially as ADC bot, i can generally obtain 100cs or so by 11 minutes, however my problem comes with pushing.

When the enemy starts pushing lots, and creeps are at my tower, what can I do to prevent this? I have heard that pushing is not a good idea, yet when enemies push me, they deny me cs to the tower (I consider myself relatively good @ tower farming, but still tower can steal).

When the enemy push like this, is the recommended tactic to wait for a gank from jungle?

Also, is the reason that you generally dont want to take a tower early, because then its more difficult to farm, and the only reason you take an early tower is so you can roam?

Thanks


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sambobsam

Junior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micksterzone View Post
Hello!
I have been playing League of Legends for a while now, and I'm steady in the 1250 bracket or so. I would like to get better at last hitting, as i generally have 60-80cs by 11 minutes, and I would like this to be higher.

In a lane where both players are passive, and especially as ADC bot, i can generally obtain 100cs or so by 11 minutes, however my problem comes with pushing.

When the enemy starts pushing lots, and creeps are at my tower, what can I do to prevent this? I have heard that pushing is not a good idea, yet when enemies push me, they deny me cs to the tower (I consider myself relatively good @ tower farming, but still tower can steal).

When the enemy push like this, is the recommended tactic to wait for a gank from jungle?

Also, is the reason that you generally dont want to take a tower early, because then its more difficult to farm, and the only reason you take an early tower is so you can roam?

Thanks

i could use and answer to this too


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Duhizy

Senior Member

10-22-2012

remind your jungler that they are pushed up but dont expect anything if they are on the other side of the map, if there pushed and have no flash then tell your jungler to gank with that info, he'll be more likely to listen. Keep in mind that although it is sometimes a good idea to camp bot lane most junglers will avoid bot lane because its either always warded or its just you can just farm and carry so relying on your jungler is somewhat of a gift when you play ad.

The answer to your question of how to stop their pushing is simple, if you deem the chances that you'll get a gank(mid/jungler) are low then you have to push back as hard as possible, this depends on the champion's pushing ability by generally even playing a champ like vayne who cant push as hard as other ads like graves im still able to keep the lane centred by auto attacking the creeps more to make up for the pushing. If you feel that you'll receive no benefit from letting them push then dont let them.

If they are far ahead and can force push you then its time to ask from help from mid or jungler and explain your situation, if you receive no help then imo the best thing to do is let them take your tower;its the only way that you'll farm effectively for mid game. The enemy will roam but theres nothing you can do about that in this case, your priority in that case was to get the gold need to carry into late game rather then get denied the rest of the game. freeze the lane near your second tower and farm.

There are a few reasons why you should either keep a tower up or take it down early, as you stated it becomes harder to farm if you take the tower to early so some people choose to keep enemy tower up; however, they are missing a key element of what is possible if snowballed properly.

The issue that you'll face at your elo is that people wont know how to snowball a game properly other then getting really fed and carrying so most people while take bot tower early and be like "now what", the answer is to abuse your control to end the game at 20 min. Take bot tower then roam mid and take mid tower as fast as you can, this leaves you with a large gold advantage as well as map control, from here your free to take all the enemies buffs and even kill the jungler if you play your cards right which gets you a free dragon; from there you repush bot lane if they push up and then 4 man dive top lane and take the tower. At that point it should be around 18 min and with at least 4 people top you can easily take baron and push mid to end the game by 20. It works, try it XD OR you can chose to freeze the lane at your tower without taking any towers bot and endlessly deny the enemy bot lane, this means at 20 min in you'll have 180 cs and your enemy will have 70, feel free to hard carry your team mid game with ease.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-22-2012

There are two options.

1) If you have a good jungler who is a good ganker, you can simply try your best to farm under the turret (there are actually guides to help you improve CS while farming under the turret), while waiting for a gank.

2) Alternatively, if you'd rather not rely on the jungler, you can learn how to keep the minion wave where you want it (there are also guides for this). Typically, ADCs farm passively. They don't hit the minions other than to last hit them, and this is good because it ensures you're not missing last hits. However, if the enemy ADC is hitting the minions more often than last hits, or last-hitting with an ability (so he's taking more health to last hit), or if they're playing a champion like Tristana who will automatically pushes lanes, or the enemy support is Alistar or Soraka, which tend to push lanes, then if you don't want to farm under your turret, you can also hit minions more often than last hits. The idea is to balance the amount of damage each team is doing to the minions.

Both of these methods take practice, and you can learn against bots. Bots tend to push lanes as they just attack minions non-stop, so you can either let them push and practice strategies for farming under the turret, or you can try to balance their push while still trying to get as many last hits as possible.

Alternatively, you can pick Tristana yourself, or get your support to take Soraka or Alistar to try to balance it.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

10-22-2012

I think you have a classic case of "knowing the solution without knowing the problem" which is a problem that a lot of new players run into.

So, here's the deal. The Problem/Goal is to win your lane. You do that by getting more gold/xp than your opponent.
Pushing the lane to their turret is one way to get them to miss gold by missing last hits as the turret eats all of them. However, there is a danger in pushing out because you are vulnerable to ganks due to being further out.

You can of course ward your river to watch for ganks and retreat when you see the enemy mid or jungler come in to kill you.

There are plenty of things you can do to counter-act that, but I hope I've answered the basic question of why pushing out is dangerous (I wouldn't say it's bad). Pushing out is great if you can ensure that you won't get ganked, and in fact, you'll see at high level play that if you see the enemy jungler gank top, the bot lanes will go in a pushing frenzy to take advantage of the fact that they know they won't get ganked.

There are a lot more tactics to be used in laning that can be discussed as well.


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Amatzikahni

Senior Member

10-22-2012

I won't reiterate what's been said, but duhizy nailed it and FaerellG explained the reasoning quite well. Instead, I'll explain how you can last hit under turrets super easily with the help of your support. If the minions are practically full health and you can't oneshot them after one or two tower hits (melee and ranged minions respectively), then have your support whack the minion that the tower is hitting. After one hit, the minion should be in range for you to last hit. Make sure you hit the minion after your support does; if you hit it too early, you're actually making your support last hit. From what I've seen, supports don't even do this at 1500, but it's amazing how much CS you can save if you haven't gone back to buy an AD item in a while. If you haven't been doing this as a support, you should do this very early on as long as you don't oneshot the minion; there's a gap when you can't oneshot but your AD can, and getting the hang of it before your AD misses a creep is a good idea.


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cpandarun

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Senior Member

10-22-2012

At lower levels when it's harder for an ad carry to last hit under tower and I'm support I'll freeze the lane and tank a couple hits just outside of tower range. I usually play Janna Lulu or Lux so I have shields available and will happily eat some damage to give my ad carry extra creeps. You could ask your support if they have some form of sustain or damage mitigation to do this. Also as stated above if the opponent is pushing when I'm an ad carry I'll push back weakening creeps but trying to push a little less than them to keep myself safe.


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VoiceOfUnreason

Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micksterzone View Post
When the enemy starts pushing lots, and creeps are at my tower, what can I do to prevent this? I have heard that pushing is not a good idea, yet when enemies push me, they deny me cs to the tower (I consider myself relatively good @ tower farming, but still tower can steal).
Disclaimer: I main support, rather than ADC

1) You have heard that pushing is not a good idea. A slightly better expression would be that pushing more than your opponents is not a good idea.

In an ideal world, the creep line is in one of two positions: under their tower (so they are having trouble last hitting), or just outside of your tower (where they are most vulnerable to ganks and you aren't losing creeps to tower).

Therefore, the amount of push you "should" give is a function of your position in the lane. When the creep line is almost at their tower, you want to push hard to shove it the rest of the way. When the creep line is mid lane, you want to last hit only - trying to pull the line back toward your tower. But as the line gets closer to your tower, if the opponents keep pushing, you'll want to start pushing back.

2) Your support can help you farm under tower by prepping the minions - especially the caster minions. Good supports will probably take the initiative to do this, but it's a lot more likely if you explain what you need and ask for it (best: explain what you need before laning phase begins)

3) Your support can also help you manage the creep line - again, you have better odds if you tell the support what help you need.