Jungle is almost as bad as support now...

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churahm

Senior Member

10-03-2012

The jungle was fine until they decided to **** it up with the jungle remake


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Eph289

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Senior Member

10-03-2012

I've been feeling this frustration as well. I've pretty much had to drop more invasion/farm oriented junglers like Kayle and Udyr because the jungle gives so little gold and the %#$!ing mid is always taking your %$*&!ing wraiths like it's their own lane farm. Now I almost exclusively jungle with Maokai, with the occasional Lee Sin. Jarvan's iffy and Malphite's banned.

It used to be mid could get 3rd blue. Now it's almost mandatory that they get 2nd blue. Forget about having your 3rd or 4th red. That's the carry's. And by the 10 minute mark, now mid wants the ^&%*ing WRAITHS TOO when they already have the safest lane and (usually) best farming capabilities.

Screw that.

I may primarily play mid, but when I play jungle, it's not fun being the "second support," and that's what exactly Riot has turned jungle into. That's boring. As much as I hate playing against a good one, I miss the impact a good Nocturne or Udyr or Olaf could have coming out of the jungle.

The thing I hate the most about the current meta is that supports and junglers basically never get to full build until 10-20 minutes after top/mid/carry. I don't care that much about farming, but building stuff and seeing it benefit you/your team is fun.

Junglers right now . . . their fun items are basically Aegis and Oracle until way after everyone gets the big boy items.

Screw that, Riot.

I almost don't care what the repercussions are if the gold and EXP values on every single jungle creep were doubled and their HP buffed by 50%. It'd make jungle less about being a roaming ganking support, because that's basically what they are right now.

Oh, and do something about double golems. The camp is way out of line with Wolves/Wraiths and most junglers don't even do them unless they're seriously bored these days.

/rant


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Verandriel

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainB85 View Post
So what does that devolve the jungle into? A tanky support with good initiate and CC. The best jungle picks by far these days are champs like Amumu, Nautilius, Malphite, etc... who can win team fights without any gold at all due to their kits.
Yet Shyvana, Lee Sin, and Udyr are top tier junglers.


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Mogs01gt

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Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainB85 View Post
Seriously, I am seeing more people want jungle than support these days, and the reason is obvious in my mind: the most sure fire way to win now is just to make jungle another support.

There's no room assassin/damage dealing type junglers with the current design. The jungle just doesn't provide enough farm compared to lane anymore, and you can't rely on getting lots of kills from ganks early if the enemy team plays smart and/or your team doesn't.

That's also if you even get to clear your own jungle. With how easy the small camps are now, other lanes pretty much demand half your camps to get an edge over their enemy laner... and why shouldn't they, it's a great tactic for them... long as you aren't the poor jungler!

So what does that devolve the jungle into? A tanky support with good initiate and CC. The best jungle picks by far these days are champs like Amumu, Nautilius, Malphite, etc... who can win team fights without any gold at all due to their kits.

I really hope Riot has some plans for jungle in season 3, because I am sure I am not the only one who is flat out sick of this design.

FYI: As support running GP5 runes and building dual GP5 I usually end up with more gold at the end of the game than our jungle, even if they played well and had similar presence (kills/assists)... that's how little the jungle is currently worth... further strengthening my metaphor as jungle the secondary support.
We need the old jungle back!


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Guttler

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Watch the world championship stream to see pros playing Lee Sin, Udyr, and Hecarim.

You're gonna have a bad time.


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iainB85

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttler View Post
Watch the world championship stream to see pros playing Lee Sin, Udyr, and Hecarim.

You're gonna have a bad time.
Even if what you say is true, arranged teams, especially at that tier, is not the same meta as what your average player is going through.


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Carnn

Senior Member

10-03-2012

I play tanky AOE junglers with a 0/17/13 setup and gold quints. MAXIMUM INCOME.


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iainB85

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Carnavas View Post
I play tanky AOE junglers with a 0/17/13 setup and gold quints. MAXIMUM INCOME.
Yep, further emphasizing the support jungle meta. It works great, I just wish it wasn't the only strategy for jungle that worked great in solo Q.


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Skrapt

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Agree with OP, jungle has some problems. Too many for me to list right now, but the current meta for Junglers is pretty lame and impossible to break outside of organized play.

As long as the game is focused around team fights and snowballing your lanes, tanky low farm initiating support junglers will be king. Assassins and other Carry junglers are too gold and level dependent to be relaible in the jungle and don't bring the needed utility to team fights when behind on gold.


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Skrapt

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Oh and you can't buff these non-viable champions in jungle like Tryndamere, Kayle, Jax, Fiora etc. or the become too strong Top, which is another aspect of the problem.

I think the real problem lies in the jungle itself. It needs a remake for season 3.