Jungle is almost as bad as support now...

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Von Nicklesnout

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by holy knightmare View Post
I also think riot needs to do something with the jungle.
After they ruined it like they did pre-Season 2, don't really have any faith.


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iainB85

Senior Member

10-05-2012

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Originally Posted by 7 White Dreams View Post
Junglers role now is essentially giving a solo lane to mid and top so they get more xp faster while they punish anyone who overextends without warding and have control over objectives. The gap between a bad jungler and a good jungler is huge. I like playing top and while I dominated my lane opponent, I am sometimes forced to play passive because of jungler camping my lane. So basically that's what they do, they roam around the map, put some pressure just by their presence and then in lategame are only useful if, as you said, smth like nautilus, maokai, amumu, etc.

Having said this, I'd love to see some changes in the jungle. If riot doesn't have anything in mind, at least make jungle creeps to give a little bit more gold
Nice summary, I agree.


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iainB85

Senior Member

10-05-2012

I do think it's a bit more complicated than simply raising the amount of gold jungle is worth... that will only encourage other lanes to take the jungle even more.


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Bittlez

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainB85 View Post
I do think it's a bit more complicated than simply raising the amount of gold jungle is worth... that will only encourage other lanes to take the jungle even more.
That's why everyone who knows there's a major issue with the jungle just wants pre-season 2 jungle back. Pre-nerf(what they call "rework") was harder and more dangerous to take on which is why alot of people had to start cloth armor.. if you can just start boots + pots in the jungle, something is wrong or you're on a life-steal jungler.

Nasus was a great jungler because of his lifesteal and survivability in it, giving him an early lead. Warwick as well was in this situation. Shen had health regen and was in the jungle alot.

When is the last time you seen nasus, an AWESOME ganker with superb scaling on his Q when left to solo farm, in the jungle?


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iainB85

Senior Member

10-05-2012

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Originally Posted by TehPumpkin View Post
That's why everyone who knows there's a major issue with the jungle just wants pre-season 2 jungle back. Pre-nerf(what they call "rework") was harder and more dangerous to take on which is why alot of people had to start cloth armor.. if you can just start boots + pots in the jungle, something is wrong or you're on a life-steal jungler.

Nasus was a great jungler because of his lifesteal and survivability in it, giving him an early lead. Warwick as well was in this situation. Shen had health regen and was in the jungle alot.

When is the last time you seen nasus, an AWESOME ganker with superb scaling on his Q when left to solo farm, in the jungle?
Yep... why would you pick Nasus jungle when there are champs like Amumu and Malphite who can setup an easy team fight win with zero farm. Jungle is just completely forced into a support role these days.


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ColossusCrusher

Senior Member

10-05-2012

I don't *mind* playing those tanky supports - they're good and have their uses. The thing is, especially as a jungle main, it gets tiring playing the same thing in a role that has so many varieties. I love Shaco but I haven't been able to justify picking him in months since I could just play Nautilus and get almost as good ganks without totally crashing into the ground if I fail them.

Unfortunately if jungle gold goes up then it's an indirect buff to laners who take/steal jungle monsters, while adjusting gp10 items screws over supports really hard. Since Riot probably isn't going to revert the changes, I don't really know if anything can be done about this situation.


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Bittlez

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColossusCrusher View Post
I don't *mind* playing those tanky supports - they're good and have their uses. The thing is, especially as a jungle main, it gets tiring playing the same thing in a role that has so many varieties. I love Shaco but I haven't been able to justify picking him in months since I could just play Nautilus and get almost as good ganks without totally crashing into the ground if I fail them.

Unfortunately if jungle gold goes up then it's an indirect buff to laners who take/steal jungle monsters, while adjusting gp10 items screws over supports really hard. Since Riot probably isn't going to revert the changes, I don't really know if anything can be done about this situation.
While it's a slight indirect buff to the midlane, the hp/damage revert(aka undoing the jungle nerf) would make double golems alot more time consuming and difficult. Wraiths won't die in 1 quick combo from mid anymore so more time is spent and possibly they take more damage.

And with shacos, nocturnes, warwicks, and nasus's coming back with such a revert, you would see them basicly "rip the mid a new one" for even considering touching their now-worthwhile farm.

EDIT: A Q-farmed nasus in teamfights late game > maokai/amumu. 1 Q = half of maokai's hp = your initiation is now your death.


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Battle Pope V2

Senior Member

10-05-2012

I personally miss seeing a variety of junglers available that we saw teams use in season 1. I cant think of the last time I saw a sustain jungler like trundle be used in a game. I mean why would that style be used when nearly everyone can start boots and 3 pots, hit level 4, and then coast in the jungle regardless of their champions kit. I mean soraka can jungle in season 2 ffs.


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Ogacon

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Senior Member

10-05-2012

I disagree with this thread. These are my two main roles. Jungling is about controlling the map, and getting your other lanes kills and ahead. Also, your statement about support having more gold is false. I always finish my jungle games with more gold than the support.


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Bittlez

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogacon View Post
I disagree with this thread. These are my two main roles. Jungling is about controlling the map, and getting your other lanes kills and ahead. Also, your statement about support having more gold is false. I always finish my jungle games with more gold than the support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Pope V2 View Post
I personally miss seeing a variety of junglers available that we saw teams use in season 1. I cant think of the last time I saw a sustain jungler like trundle be used in a game. I mean why would that style be used when nearly everyone can start boots and 3 pots, hit level 4, and then coast in the jungle regardless of their champions kit. I mean soraka can jungle in season 2 ffs.
Jungle your support; profit.

The point is not that we make less then a support. Everyone should make more then someone who gets zero farm. If not, there would be a massive imbalance. The point is that the jungle role is best filled by junglers who coast on abilities and aren't even doing it to gain farm. Which is why we had junglers in the first place

Champs that are very poor 1v1 champs in a laning environment so they need farm but need it safely. Aka shaco/nocturne/rammus/nasus. Rammus is a very powerful champion even with all his nerfs.. but without a decent farm he cannot reach the potential by lvl 6 that he used to be able to. His defensive curl was an awesome jungling tool which helped him get good farming income.. now that the income is nerfed, there's no need for him. His clear time is actually worse because of how weak the jungle mobs are.

By the by, the title says "Almost" as bad as support, not that it is. However, I may want to point out that supports are champions that have kits which excel even without any real income/items.

Junglers should be the opposite. It's w/e though, riot messed up the jungle and has refused to comment for the last year. They're avoiding the subject and it's blatantly obvious they will never fix it.

I will not, however, stop pointing it out and calling them out on it. They created this crappy jungle meta and they are required to fix it or rework champions such as rammus, shaco, nocturne, nasus, warwick, and others.