Jungle is almost as bad as support now...

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TooLeegitToQuit

Member

10-04-2012

Have a look at my ranked stats and tell me I play support junglers.


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Bittlez

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Greevo View Post
people now are realizing the true job of the jungler. wich is supporting every lane.

imo the jungler should never get the kill when he ganks. if u let the lane champ get fed, he can start snowballing easily or just winning the lane. this results in the denial of farm to the enemy team, putting your team even more ahead.

is much better to give those 300g to the lane and leave the jungler with an assist.
so this is why its better to pick a jungler with a great kit, that doesnt requires much gold
Because 100 cs toplane with 3 kills having 4 items into their build is better then the

100 cs jungler(with 1/8th of the gold from that CS due to FOURgold little minions) and 0 kills/4 assists.

Yes, lets screw over the jungler who can basicly force a person out of your lane so you just gained 13-26 cs more which is 2 champ kills in lane CS.. However 13-26cs in jungle is equal to about 4 to 10 lane cs. You have 4 items, jungle has 1 1/2.

Sounds legit.


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Bittlez

Senior Member

10-04-2012

People have this messed up and full-blown ****** perception of junglers supposed to give kills to the laner. Which by all means is COMPLETELY false. The only person to be given kills is botlane if ganked and that's because the carry, despite lane cs farm being very rewarding, wants to get into their actual damage items since they rely super heavily on them.

However the other lanes can live off lane-cs alone. If you're the reason the midlane opponent is behind by 40 to 50 cs... You basicly gave your mid lane 3-5 kills lead worth of gold on the enemy. The jungler having these kills is tremendously more beneficial when it comes to top/mid lane ganks. The laner gets all this free cs after the kill and one of you are high enough to go hunt down the enemy jungler and try to counter him when he goes to try and "hold the lane".

I have no idea who started this whole 'mid/top lane need the kill over jungler' thing but it's so blatantly a troll gone too far. Since the rework, the only real income is from -actual kills-.

I bet if lane cs caster minions dropped to 4gold a piece all hell would break loose.


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Overlord Priere

Senior Member

10-04-2012

I've tried playing several junglers, and I just haven't had any luck in season 2 without going full-tank. I've played Shyvana, Sejuani, Eve, and Udyr. Every time seems to end up the same. Farming the jungle doesn't give much of anything. A few failed ganks, or even just ones where you make the enemy waste their flash and chase them out, means you're now way behind. Sej and Udyr are the hardest to deal with among the bunch. While they both have decent CC, you have to be in melee range to use it properly. If you get stunned or they flash away, now you miss out on even the tiny amount of gold clearing the jungle provides. I remember when Udyr used to be a first-pick ban and cries for his nerfing rang throughout GD. What happened?


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Tutskii

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

I am sick of everyone stealing my jungle.

Mid will try to wraiths and wolves,

Top will very often try to steal all my golems.

If the ganking is going slow, and i'm playing vs a competent jungler that wards, there isn't anything for me to do but sit with gp10 and do nothing.

And I ask politely to stop stealing my jungle.

And they don't.

Oops, refreshed the thread and it doubleposted. Browsing from cellphones is fun


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Overlord Priere

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutskii View Post
I am sick of everyone stealing my jungle.

Mid will try to wraiths and wolves,

Top will very often try to steal all my golems.

If the ganking is going slow, and i'm playing vs a competent jungler that wards, there isn't anything for me to do but sit with gp10 and do nothing.

And I ask politely to stop stealing my jungle.

And they don't.

Oops, refreshed the thread and it doubleposted. Browsing from cellphones is fun
The worst is when your team decides to farm your jungle after pushing all the way to their tower. Now you can't gank, or farm.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainB85 View Post
Seriously, I am seeing more people want support than jungle these days, and the reason is obvious in my mind: the most sure fire way to win now is just to make jungle another support.

There's no room assassin/damage dealing type junglers with the current design. The jungle just doesn't provide enough farm compared to lane anymore, and you can't rely on getting lots of kills from ganks early if the enemy team plays smart and/or your team doesn't.

That's also if you even get to clear your own jungle. With how easy the small camps are now, other lanes pretty much demand half your camps to get an edge over their enemy laner... and why shouldn't they, it's a great tactic for them... long as you aren't the poor jungler!

So what does that devolve the jungle into? A tanky support with good initiate and CC. The best jungle picks by far these days are champs like Amumu, Nautilius, Malphite, etc... who can win team fights without any gold at all due to their kits.

I really hope Riot has some plans for jungle in season 3, because I am sure I am not the only one who is flat out sick of this design.

FYI: As support running GP5 runes and building dual GP5 I usually end up with more gold at the end of the game than our jungle, even if they played well and had similar presence (kills/assists)... that's how little the jungle is currently worth... further strengthening my metaphor as jungle the secondary support.

Would love a red post in this thread, even if it's "we're happy with the jungle now" just to see if they agree/disagree with its current state.
And now we can see why so many players hated the jungle change. Jungle income needs to be increased by at least 60% if any other role outside of CC heavy utility champs are going to be viable in there.


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Suscipio

Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by prozak82 View Post
if they would frickin get rid of flash then ganking might actually be worth your time
I agree that flash is a huge pain. However, I feel that without flash some champions would have an unfair advantage in the game. Certain champions that already have gap closers such as: Ahri, Graves, Corki, Riven and Ezreal.

I feel that the jungle is in an odd place. Whenever I choose to play jungle I find that the best course of action is to either shut down the enemy jungler to the point that the tanky junglers can't tank, or pick yourself a tanky jungler for heavy cc.

Assassin type jungles are alright but in solo queue it really is a toss up as to how the team will play.


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Alexandra Avdey

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

Stop.

Stealing.

My.

Jungle!


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iainB85

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FF NOLiMiTZ View Post
Have a look at my ranked stats and tell me I play support junglers.
Kudos to the high elo, but you are only backing up my statement. Your most played champion is Hec, and looking at your match history ( http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/32618260#history ) you build him with a frozen heart every game, then a mix of other tanky items (depending on the game) such as Randuin's and FoN. The only real damage dealing item you build is *sometimes* a trinity force, which is a hybrid offensive item.

So you play Hec and pretty much build him full tank. Hec has great initiate / disruption abilities with his ult. How are you not backing up exactly what I am talking about? In the majority of your games you are a tanky CC bot initiator.