Compete with Honor!

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Best Fizz EU

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Senior Member

10-01-2012

So I know that there is a system to prevent honour trading with friends, but is anything going to be done about honour trading with non-friends? Example, what if some random person in the end-game lobby says "If you honour me, I'll honour you back."


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
There's several problems here:

Having been immersed in the field of neuroscience and psychology, I'm very familiar with the studies you are alluding to. However, you lack major pieces of information. For example, do you know how intrinsic versus extrinsic rewards influence behaviors? Which one is more likely to encourage permanent change?

Compare the following: Who would the system identify if we announced tangible rewards? Is this the same population that the current system (without rewards) would identify today? If these two populations are different, why would we choose one over the other?

Secondly, this is game development. It's not a lab where we can control every variable. This is the difference between academia and industry. Players will try to abuse the system and unexpected behaviors will be born. The key is iteration. In a perfect world, you assign a team of 20 machine learners and predictive modelers to try to predict every possible outcome of the Honor Initiative, then launch everything at once and no iterations are required and the system is perfect. Is that reasonable? No.

You have to work on these systems and iterate over time. Release features. Collect data. Analyze data. Iterate. Collect data. Analyze data. Re-iterate. Repeat. It's how a scientist would do it and at Team Player Behavior, this is how we do it.

Actually, I just read this, so excuse if this is a double post....

You are trying to "permanently" change people. This is where you are flawed. People don't change for nothing. Trolls have been trolls for a long time, and will continue to be trolls for whatever their reason. For me, when I get angry and rage at the game, it's because I can't stand when people want to talk like their experts in something that they are not. Honor isn't going to change how I feel, and while I may be less inclined to react now, ultimately, I believe I'm a pretty honorable player anyway. It's not going to change the fact that when someone talks smack in game, or in real life, it's going to irk me.

Lets talk about people who are tired of playing with "baddies" in ranked. Had this last night. The guy stated in pre-game chat that he wanted to troll. If our jungler died even one time, he was going to afk at base. He even linked us his profile where he was 0/6 with graves, with an average of like, 15 cs. It was his troll pick champion. Does honor change this behavior? Maybe, but what about on a permanent scale? Is he forever going to be influenced to change? No. He wont be, because for whatever reason he believes this behavior is acceptable. Some points on a game aren't going to change that.

I believe you are trying to achieve the wrong thing here... instead of trying to achieve a game where people are kinder to each other, you are trying to create a culture where this is the norm. You are not inspiring anyone to change their behavior on a permanent scale just because you now waive some points in peoples faces that have no significant meaning. Ever play with someone who says, "go ahead, report me, I have two other accounts so if this one gets banned w//e."?

Here's the perfect example. My wife and I used to play world of warcraft very heavily. Everyone who's ever played it knows that trade chat = troll chat. We had a guild rule (over 600 members, 80% active) that you could not participate in troll chat. You could talk in trade, but if it in anyway disrespected the guild or our name, then you would get one warning and then be kicked from the guild. This deterred a lot of people from trolling chat, however we had a guy who really liked to troll. He actually took one of his toons and left the guild to make that his "troll" character. Seriously... now, could we do anything about this? We could kick all his toons, but nobody could link that character back to our guild so what was it hurting? What is Riot going to do when people make smurf accounts so they can troll, allowing their main account to be "honorable?" Are you going to start banning multiple accounts? You can't really connect the two can you? What if you gave that person something to achieve... some reason that they should want to stay at least neutral honor. That way, they can't get away with trolling on a smurf account. Or the smurf of their smurf...

Giving people a reason to be good sucks. However, this is a game. One on the internet. I'm never going to meet anyone that I play with on this game and know it, so what is stopping me (besides my upbringing) to rage and yell and talk like I'm the best player in the world? Some points? What will I gain for getting them? A score? Oh well, who cares. I have a higher elo than you, so why should I care (this is an example, my ELO actually sucks, and I'm a terrible player, I know this already) if you have a higher honor score than me? You suck at this game and I'm a master, so why don't you uninstall? You want to solve the toxic player attitude? Start listening to the players when we say what options we want in game to handle this ourselves. Kicking people in champ select, or even, letting it show up in the tribunal so we can legit report champ select trolls. Make the repeat offenders get more than a 3 day ban. Figure out some way to prevent trolls from just making a smurf account to troll with... these things will lower the toxicity... not giving some irrelevant number in which to further evaluate our epeen with, when really, it shows no skill... ELO > Honor, and trolls are still going to be trolls.


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ShinMinah noona

Junior Member

10-01-2012

That's a pretty cool system, I really like it!
Question, whats stopping people from falsely giving out bad mentions though, will there be a tribunal like system to check each mention?


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Enofel

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Malevolence View Post
Can you add a report option stating that they told you to honor them?
I feel it's at least as valid as "Unskilled player". And it wouldn't have to effect anything.
Is stated in FAQ to report under "Spamming"


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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10-01-2012
21 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkhon View Post
Actually, I just read this, so excuse if this is a double post....

You are trying to "permanently" change people. This is where you are flawed. People don't change for nothing.
Where did I say we were trying to permanently change people?


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Play with friends get honor every game?


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetor View Post
Extrinsic can lead to intrinsic. Iterations after iterations, seems like a buzzword among the industry you chose to make your living in these past few years. I often wonder which field of study gave rise to this buzzword/method. Perhaps it's just a good method to develop video games. Perhaps it's just a buzzword. At any rate, the only thing that matters are results. No one can argue with results.
Without extensive background knowledge, the first obvious connection I would make is with the rise of computing.

But that's not the point. First you learn about your playerbase, then you influence it. Phase 1 of the Honor system is in large part for learning about the playerbase. Would you rather ***** that not everything has been solved yet, when you don't even know what's coming next? Or would you like to wait and find out?


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Shadowy1

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Senior Member

10-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumbnail9 View Post
Play with friends get honor every game?
You would not get the full benefit of the honor they give, and might even have issues if you are trading honor back and forth as that could constitute abuse.


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Gunxlinger

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Senior Member

10-01-2012

Lyte is secretly Lulu. She is trying to make everyone squirrels forever D:


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MathMage

Senior Member

10-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Where did I say we were trying to permanently change people?
Uh...you did mention intrinsic vs. extrinsic rewards and the difference in inspiring permanent change in player behavior. That does certainly have implications.