Junglers giving their blue to mid lane.

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OriginalJack

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
He doesn't. First blue is essential, but he can easily jungle after he gets a philo, which can be done before the second blue comes up.
Ok so I guess it's safe to say that if you are a jungler you can afford to give away your second blue regardless of who you're playing unless you are either not playing your champ correctly or something else has gone horribly wrong and you're way behind, like you've been counter jungled hard or you've died repeatedly early on.


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OriginalJack

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolicia View Post
As Skarner, I always find it extremely useful because leveling up and spamming his Q burns through his mana until he can build into something to increase the size of his pool. Same with Nautilus, who has ridiculously long cooldowns and his spells take a significant bite out of his mana pool. It can make his ganks a lot harder.

While there's certainly more mids who can make use of blue, there are a lot of junglers who might not need it, but they greatly benefit from it. As mentioned before, it comes down to team composition and at that time, who's a more viable asset to the team that needs it. If mid is completely rolling their lane or if the jungler isn't getting his clears or ganks, the jungler probably could make better use of it. If mid needs the sustain against a counterpick, is losing their lane, or the jungler doesn't need it, of course the mid will get it. And it's for the laning phase, which is around maybe four blues. The jungler getting two and the mid getting two isn't unreasonable, because the mid will get them for the rest of the game outside the laning phase anyway.
Now Skarner I do play! I will agree that blue is helpful but the second blue should still go to mid unless they are manaless, likely to feed it or you are way behind. Unless it's one of those three cases blue will be much better put to use on the mid.

(sorry for the double post)


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Martyrofsand

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolicia View Post
Except going by the logic in the OP, your jungler won't always give you blue. As mentioned it comes down to team composition, as a Jungler that's reliant on blue to do his job effectively like Amumu won't be giving his blue away to mid so frequently. Not to mention there are several mids that are helped by blue (as CDR is nice for anybody) but there's only a handful of them where they need it to actually hold their lane (Anivia). If your team comp is poor enough that both your jungler and your mid NEED blue buff to function optimally during the laning phase, you're doing something wrong with your team comp.



I don't go by the OPs "logic" I go by the 4-5 man premade I run with 90% of the time while playing this game, IE my jungler is someone I trust who will give me blue unless it is stole period.



Quote:
If you're pushing them under their turret, how are you not out of position to get ganked? That doesn't make any sense. Also look, you're pushing champions like Karthus, Swain, Vlad or Kat under the turret and making their jobs easier because haha, sustain. And you probably won't be able to steal their jungle since their jungler is probably keeping their buffs and counterjungling and outspeeding your jungler.


Let's see the waves come and meet in the middle. Now if you take someone like say Cass, Ahri, Karthus, etc etc it's very easy to skill shot kill the caster minions from well behind the halfway point, and either last hit the melee ones quickly or your CDs are low enough that you can recast to insta-clear them. This whole thing normally takes around 3-5 seconds to do at which point your lane starts attacking the opponent, and unless they decide to tank the damage, they will be under turret which will easily kill the entire wave before the next one arrives. It isn't hard to insta-clear a way without putting yourself in danger.


Quote:
Have mana and CDR problems at mid? Tell your jungler to run a champion that doesn't need blue frequently. Or run a mid yourself that doesn't need it. It absolutely helps, but it doesn't win the lane; it moreso helps you not lose it if you're using a champion who has serious mana issues, or if you have mana management problems yourself


You are completely wrong on this. You are in a lane won by CDR and mana regen, similiar to how top lane is won by armor and armor pen. Blue provides both of those things in huge quantities and if you don't have it and the other does you might as well be 1-2 levels below them for all the difference it makes.


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adc

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Master Recruiter

12-05-2012

I can count on one hand the number of times my jungler has taken second blue when I'm mid lane in the past 500 games. Go watch any high level play. Blue buff goes to mid lane.


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ChibiCheeberson

Member

12-05-2012

My feelings on this is that if I'm jungling, I have the right to decide who gets what buff. Obviously once it becomes late game, red goes to the adc and blue goes to the ap carry. I play heroes like Xin and Jax jungle and my play style involves having blue buff to dish out the maximum damage with my skills. If I'm playing Lee then I'll gladly give my blue away. What really pisses me off is when mid laners feel entitled to the buff and demand it. I just want people to ask nicely and be sportsmanlike if I decide that I need the buff more than they do. For this reason, I usually bring clarity when I mid with Lux or Diana. I understand that heroes like Anivia succeed the best with blue, but seriously, if you're rude when you ask for it or just steal it from under my nose, I'm gonna be pissed and probably keep you from getting the buff the rest of the game. Just be considerate and don't be rude.


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ChibiCheeberson

Member

12-05-2012

Another problem that's not being addressed here is that we're talking about lower level elo games. Most of the people posting in this forum right now or having arguments in games about who gets blue aren't pro level players. What needs to be established is an understanding among all players that you don't demand anything and try to be cordial when communicating with the team.

I never ask for blue. If the jungler is kind enough to give it to me, I'll take it. I NEVER demand anything from the jungler and will try to be patient if the jungler is struggling. Both jungler and mid should be mindful about conserving mana so that the argument of who gets blue is nonexistent. Nobody should feel entitled to ANYTHING. It's a team game and you get what you earn. You don't win a game if you half-ass play and make mistakes. Having blue buff doesn't automatically win you a lane. It's not a make or break thing that mysteriously turns the game around.

I think one of the biggest problems is that there is a lack of respect for junglers. Yes, it is the jungler's job to promote the team and help the rest of the team gain experience and gank but at the same time, the jungler can't forgo succeeding and leveling in the jungle in order to promote the other lanes. If you have a jungler who is underleveled and falling behind, try to be supportive and helpful. I can't tell you how many games I've had where everyone yells at the jungler like he's the one who needs to fix all of the team's problems.

"Give this, give that, come gank, oh you got counterjungled? You suck."

It's simple. Cooperate with your teammates, don't be a jerk, and overall, stop being rude to each other.


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adc

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12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiCheeberson View Post
For this reason, I usually bring clarity when I mid with Lux or Diana..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're either not level 30, or you're new to the game.

I just looked you up, you have 930 normal wins with THAT mentality? Holy ****, how?

I'm not going to say anything about S3 clarity, though it's probably still not going to be a thing you run mid lane. But for the entirety of S2, clarity was a bad ****ing spell. You go ignite mid lane (except karthus, you take exhaust as him) because it gives more damage. You DON'T go clarity because you manage your mana properly before the 7:10 mark, and then you get blue buff from your jungler and you can spam spells.