Elo Hell, and other issues

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Selcopa

Senior Member

09-26-2012

The game with Ren is an excellent game to look over, the fact that he comes out of nowhere and 2 shots you means there was some serious lack of awareness beforehand, you gotta recognize someone is getting out of control and you need to stop them.

Its very frequent that I see people say "this guy got fed and there was nothing I could do" and its partially true, once a player gets huge there isn't much you can do, but you could have prevented him from ever getting that big, I understand as support you can feel powerless but looking over a game, especially now that they are recorded in spectator mode, you can really see options you had, here are some things to consider as a support when top lane is losing.

Can I win my lane better? - this is important, if you are stalemating your lane then you won't be able to roam and pressure other areas, when your adc doesn't need you 100% of the time, it gives you the option to go to a different lane, make a play and run back to your lane before your adc gets zoned
Can we make a play on the jungler? - its possible top is getting ganked by jungle, taking him out with an aggressive ward at a buff can allow your jungle to steal a buff, increasing their time of being a threat to top.
Can I gank mid? - either you or both you+adc can do this, you might not be able to roam top, but if you can gank mid, your mid can roam top as you run back bot, the added pressure top could protect your top laner from dying once. Everything adds up
Can I sneak top? - a lot of times when my top needs help I can get mobility boots on taric, roam top blow my combo, its a play that works well if you have some coordination with your jungle(who shows himself mid, you gank top, and jungle ganks bot lane when they go aggressive on your adc) even if I can't gank and I can only drop a pink ward, it slows the snowballing down, and makes him more vulnerable to ganks,even if your top dies only 6 times instead of 8, that could be the difference between the enemy being able to gib someone, and you surviving and killing them.

It takes practice to be able to recognize when you can make movements to assist teammates, also most of the movements require that you force the enemy bot lane to turtle, so winning your lane is still the key aspect, when you do win the lane, consider some of these ideas to gain additional edges and you will see your elo move up


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Selcopa

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabelous View Post
Just got out of a game, I was first pick and took Cait when 4th pick wanted to take ADC. He picked Vayne anyway. We were up against Ali, Amumu, and Fid with Jayce and Varus.

We did what we could in bot, and we did get some kills in. Our jungler Sejuani helped out. Vlad got killed by Jayce a few times and our Teemo was against fid. The mistakes?

- I was the only one warding.
- Their team comp relied on closed jungle fighting and tanky champions
- Given the prior, Vlad felt it was always good to initiate in alleyways in the jungle with plenty of walls around.
- Vlad promptly blamed both on bot for the loss despite the fact we were both getting items after he kept costing us teamfights with terrible positioning when not everyone could get in due to walls.

Despite telling people to buy wards, and spending my own gold warding where I could it was simply everyone going into teamfights 3v5 2v5 because of walls and AoE and just got owned. Best part Vlad blamed me for not getting an IE right off the bat. Scrapping for gold you can't afford that, lesser items > no items I bought what I could (a zeal first and got IE much later).

Also I learned now thanks to LOLreplay (which records players' ELO) that the setup is NOT from highest to lowest ELO. I was first pick and I was #3 on the elo score.

Moral of the story? Sometimes you will get bad players and you cannot help that. If Vlad remained positive and played smart we could have won that, but he chose to initiate in team fights where we were cut off and later torn apart.
Its good to be in the habit of buying wards, but you need to be smart about them, warding for the sake of warding isn't much better than not warding at all, especially with caitlin you can control locations with your traps, making the need for wards a lot lower.

The fact that you were unable to be IE parts, even with getting kills, suggests you aren't getting enough farm, even with a vayne stealing cs you should be doing things to get there.
Double adc can beat a bot lane just fine especially caitlin getting tons of free poke, vayne slams an enemy to the wall, drop a trap behind them, get the kill, work on your mechanics because you could zone the lane to oblivion at that level.

Double ADC is a monster late game, doing everything you can to get 2 carries with 14k gold is the key to winning, you can melt their front lines that way


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TaunkaTruck

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Its good to be in the habit of buying wards, but you need to be smart about them, warding for the sake of warding isn't much better than not warding at all, especially with caitlin you can control locations with your traps, making the need for wards a lot lower.

The fact that you were unable to be IE parts, even with getting kills, suggests you aren't getting enough farm, even with a vayne stealing cs you should be doing things to get there.
Double adc can beat a bot lane just fine especially caitlin getting tons of free poke, vayne slams an enemy to the wall, drop a trap behind them, get the kill, work on your mechanics because you could zone the lane to oblivion at that level.

Double ADC is a monster late game, doing everything you can to get 2 carries with 14k gold is the key to winning, you can melt their front lines that way
You've had some great insight and very useful tips over your last few posts, but this one honestly confuses me. In truth, I have been seeing this as a problem, not a benefit. Several games in a row our bot "support" picked an ADC. Their rationale is as long as they sit in the bush and don't steal CS, they're supporting. To me, a blitz, janna, lulu, taric, soraka, etc are supports. My definition of support isn't sit there are share CS (it should go to the ADC). The support's role is to shield, heal, zone, cc, or otherwise bring utility to ENABLE the ADC. But you're saying two ADC bot is amazing, and that leaves me scratching my head. Do you mean an Ez and a Cait sharing CS, or one getting all the CS and the other constantly poking? I'd like to understand your perspective on this. Every game I play where an ADC champ "supports" bot, they get no farm and just sit in the bush and soak xp. it leads to an underfarmed champ, who has no support abilities to help throughout the game. Just another starved carry is how it usually ends up in my limited experience. Your thoughts?


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Gabelous

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Its good to be in the habit of buying wards, but you need to be smart about them, warding for the sake of warding isn't much better than not warding at all, especially with caitlin you can control locations with your traps, making the need for wards a lot lower.

The fact that you were unable to be IE parts, even with getting kills, suggests you aren't getting enough farm, even with a vayne stealing cs you should be doing things to get there.
Double adc can beat a bot lane just fine especially caitlin getting tons of free poke, vayne slams an enemy to the wall, drop a trap behind them, get the kill, work on your mechanics because you could zone the lane to oblivion at that level.

Double ADC is a monster late game, doing everything you can to get 2 carries with 14k gold is the key to winning, you can melt their front lines that way
Yeah the points I usually ward are the jungle entrances, the ramps to get vision on both side, tribrush, and U-brush near the buff camps.

I was zoning what I could but Vayne was playing too defensive and saving her condemn for escaping and would only go in when the jungler was around.

It didn't help Teemo felt his shrooms were enough to "count" as wards, which they honestly aren't.

And Vlad kept initiating because Sequani wouldn't (or felt it was bad positioning) so he would go in in the jungle when 2 walls and brush all around, effectively keeping us from getting at anyone but the tanks while their carry just pelted him silly. All the while fid hid in the brush and waited for amumu's ult to pop in out of nowhere.

The positioning was horrible and Vlad just made it worse by not knowing this and initiatiing teamfights we had no chance of winning.

And a couple of teamfights were lost because I was scrapping what gold I could and wasn't around when Vlad felt like fighting.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Couple things.

Late game 2 AD carries is really good, the later you get the better 2 AD Carries is
In lane vayne+caitlin can definitely win, find a way to win

Id have to see the replay, but I'm pretty confident that if I was in that game, I would have no problem winning my lane, and ultimately the game. I find it very unlikely that the game was unwinnable due to your teammates, so find out what you could have done to win the game


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Gabelous

Senior Member

09-27-2012

http://www.4shared.com/file/Jutn3kmq/Cait_Badgame.html

There you go, see what you have to say about it.

TBH I knew we needed time to own teamfights but they complained when I was farming mid-game when they had no business starting a teamfight in the first place. But Vlad was impatient, Teemo was mildly irked, Vayne and Sequani said little to nothing, and Teemo complained vehemently when I kept insisting everyone get wards.


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littlesquaredot

Junior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjagear View Post
the pros gained elo by one simple rule:

if your team is bad, and the other team is at the same elo, then they are also bad. and if you cant win at that elo, then guess wat? u baddie too.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/26350086

1300 ish player talking about others being bad.... what a troll.dont listen to this guy hes just another loser who has know idea how elo works in a team game.

of course a 2500 elo pro player can climb his way out of elo hell, hes over twice as good as anyone else in the game at 1200 elo. if you are a 1600 elo player and unlucky so that u are matched with 4 trolls, how are u supposed to beat a 1200 elo team?

and for the "it evens out" R tar ds, it it evens out then ur average elo is 1200 ish because you you need to win more then lose to gain elo.

its sad that riot wont fix this problem, and that so many really bad players like ninja here keep talking this trash on the forums because it dilutes the issue and confuses other people with out the facts.


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A Nearby Shrub

Senior Member

09-27-2012

when 2 out of three lanes go 0-5 then there is really nothing you can do about it at that point. take diana, once she gets 5 or more kills and has teammates that know how to stick with her, she is an unstoppable force. Even if im doing ok at 4-2 and another guy is doing 6-3, were still ****ed because at that point even if we focus her, the other carry will **** us in the time it takes to kill one because 3 out of the 5 people on our team cant do enough dmg to kill them


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Swooshter

Senior Member

09-27-2012

The truth is, solo ranked sucks. Sometimes you get lucky and get decent team who can listen and just group well. Other times you have people that just do not mesh at all. What I have found, is that sometimes you have to throw out the standard meta (and yes, prepare to be *****ed at and called a troll often if you do this). I have played double mid lane or top lane Malzahar. Sure, my team calls me a troll and complains, but then the strangest thing happens. We win. They still claim they are going to report me, but meh, a win is a win.

One problem I seem to run into often (and this happens on both sides), is that at this elo, many players do not understand counter picking. They want to pick their lane and champ before anyone else has picked, and they are set in their mind (even if someone else picks that spot). While I did just say sometimes you need to throw out the meta, there are still some limits.

Truly, I have had very few actual good games in solo ranked (this counts both wins and losses). I also feel the new "top rank" thing that was released, made some people troll more, since they no longer care about their rank going down, when they already got the high rank they need. Think about it. If you have a good gold rank, would you really care if you dropped down to the bronze level, especially since you are still gonna get gold rank at the end of season?


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ninjagear

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesquaredot View Post
1300 ish player talking about others being bad.... what a troll.dont listen to this guy hes just another loser who has know idea how elo works in a team game.
make no mistake, i am terrible at this game. absolutely. put me in a 1v1 with any of the top ten elos and there will be no contest. put me in a 5v5 with the top ten elos and i will be killed for firstblood and go 0/30/1 if im lucky, if not it will be worse.

having said that i will say that im not about to blame my teammates for a loss when i know that every slice of that humble pie is mine to taste as well. edit: i will add i get mad every now and then and might even snap (a little) at some of my teammates if we all having a bad game. but even i can realize that letting myself get angry over a game, especially at someone else who deserves every bit of respect that any other person deserves in the end makes no sense.

now lets both be honest with each for a moment, why r u posting in a thread about solo queue on an account that has no ranked games played?

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/29228630#profile