Champions Alignment

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pointcrock

Junior Member

01-29-2013

Rengars good he's a pride stalker


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StarkRavenMad

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Swain's not "Bad" persay. Hell, we can't really judge him. He's better under "Unknown" for now.


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Dreamspitter

Recruiter

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmight View Post
Good and evil are merely points of view. I fail to see how anyone could theoretically be classified as one or the other. Kayle, for example, can be viewed either as a paragon of virtue who bravely defends her people or as a self-righteous dictator who forces her viewpoints upon others.

The thing is we dont have enough details about the conflict to squarely put them in one category or the other.


Kayle and her side could be talking out of their arse -but we dot know.

BOTH sides though *DO* think they are doing the "right" thing.

No one is self proclaiming themselves "Masterz of tha dark powaaaz champeens fur evulz" in saturday morning cartoon fashion.


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OobeReube

Junior Member

03-11-2013

Miss Fortune isn't bad ... she is just drawn that way ...


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Montesque64

Senior Member

03-11-2013

My list:

Good
Anivia, Ashe, Caityln, Corki, Darius, Ezreal, Fiora, Galio, Garen, Heimerdinger, Irelia, Jarvan IV, Jayce, Karma, Kassadin, Kayle, Lee Sin, Leona, Lux, Master Yi, Nasus, Nunu, Poppy, Shyvana, Sona, Soraka, Taric, Teemo, Tristana, Tryndamere, Vayne, Volibear, Wukong, Xin Zhao,

Neutral
Ahri, Akali, Alistar, Amumu, Blitzcrank, Cho'Gath, Draven, Gragas, Graves, Janna, Jax, Katarina, Kennen, Kog'Maw, Malphite, Lulu, Olaf, Pantheon, Rengar, Rumble, Ryze, Shen, Sivir, Skarner, Swain, Talon, Twisted Fate, Udyr, Yorick, Ziggs, Zilean

Bad
Brand, Cassiopeia, Diana, Dr. Mundo, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Karthus, Le Blanc, Malzahar, Morgana, Nocturne, Renekton, Shaco, Singed, Sion, Syndra, Urgot, Veigar, Viktor, Vladimir, Warwick, Xerath,

Uncertain
Fizz, Gangplank, Hecarim, Maokai, Ms. Fortune, Mordekaiser, Nautilus, Nidalee, Orianna, Rammus, Riven, Sejuani, Trundle, Twitch, Varus, Zyra


Reasons for changes: Three ninjas from good to neutral, because they are dedicated to Balance, not Good. They would be equally willing to destroy a town as to save it, should that be required to balance some other action.

Lulu from good to neutral: Her lore expressly says that she enjoys changing children into things (against their will), and that her morality is much closer to purple and green than black and white.

Rumble from good to neutral: he's motivated by a desire to "show them all." Bitterness and anger are large parts of his character.

Ziggs from good to neutral: Primarily wants to improve his hextech explosives (neither a good nor evil goal), and not above causing significant property damage in the process of developing them.

Evelynn from neutral to evil: She's a spy secondly, and an assassin firstly, specializing in subterfuge and murder, either for her own sake or that of whatever power lurks in the Shadow Isles. EVIL.

Karthus from Neutral to Evil: He...wants to kill everybody and turn them undead. That's about as evil as it gets, I feel.

Nasus moved from neutral to good: Protection and guarding innocents is a common theme in Nasus' literature, as is responsibility and a desire to save his brother.

Renekton moved from neutral to evil: He's a psychopathic cannibal.

Varus moved from Neutral to unknown: He was probably originally good, or at least neutral, however after giving himself (willingly) over to the corruption, it is unknown to us how this has affected him and his morality, though presumably the it has not been a positive influence.

Vladimir moved from neutral to evil: He is explicitly stated to enjoy ripping the blood from a person's body just because he thinks it looks wonderful. Absolutely no empathy for the suffering he causes, and a desire to practice his craft freely and frequently for his own benefit make him definitely evil.

Xerath neutral to evil: Seems neutral, save for one line, where it mentions that the mages who imprisoned him were concerned about his "careless disregard for life." Striving for power regardless of collateral damage is evil.

Kog'Maw and Cho'gath moved from evil to neutral: These two certainly exhibit evil characteristics, but like Lulu, I feel like they're more Blue and Orange morality. They embody hunger, and as far as I can tell have little to no personal agency, or choice, outside of their inherent natures. Simply put, they can't NOT act the way they do.

Darius moved from evil to good: Noxian does not equal evil. He is a loyal and courageous soldier, who doesn't take any real pleasure from killing people, and doesn't seem to do it when unnecessary, but is dedicated to the ideals of his nation. These are good qualities.

Draven moved from evil to neutral: Obviously much more self centered than his brother, and thus not good. However, he also doesn't just randomly kill people, he executes condemned criminals. He just does so in an entertaining fashion, and has decided to use his skill in that field to increase his own standing.

Katarina and Talon moved from evil to neutral: Assassin, and so not good, but also dedicated to their nation, and not one to kill randomly, but rather assigned targets in the course of Noxian war. Both were also extremely (perhaps even unselfishly) devoted to General Du Cuteau.

Swain moved from Evil to neutral: Tempted to put that one as uknown, as we really don't know a lot about Swain, all things considered. However, we haven't seen him do much which is without a doubt evil, either, that I can think of.

As for the unknowns: Fizz I'd say is neutral, as are Gangplank, Maokai, Ms. Fortune, Nidalee, Nautilus, Orianna, Rammus, Sejuani, Twitch, and Zyra.

Hecarim and Mordekaiser are evil

Riven is good.


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Tehpersuns

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Akaili is lawful netrual, maybe even lawful evil, and serves as a counter point to kennen, who is either choatic netrual or chaotic good, with shen being true netrual.

Rumble is choatic netrual


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KiteMeGood

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montesque64 View Post
My list:

Good
Anivia, Ashe, Caityln, Corki, Darius, Ezreal, Fiora, Galio, Garen, Heimerdinger, Irelia, Jarvan IV, Jayce, Karma, Kassadin, Kayle, Lee Sin, Leona, Lux, Master Yi, Nasus, Nunu, Poppy, Shyvana, Sona, Soraka, Taric, Teemo, Tristana, Tryndamere, Vayne, Volibear, Wukong, Xin Zhao,

Neutral
Ahri, Akali, Alistar, Amumu, Blitzcrank, Cho'Gath, Draven, Gragas, Graves, Janna, Jax, Katarina, Kennen, Kog'Maw, Malphite, Lulu, Olaf, Pantheon, Rengar, Rumble, Ryze, Shen, Sivir, Skarner, Swain, Talon, Twisted Fate, Udyr, Yorick, Ziggs, Zilean

Bad
Brand, Cassiopeia, Diana, Dr. Mundo, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Karthus, Le Blanc, Malzahar, Morgana, Nocturne, Renekton, Shaco, Singed, Sion, Syndra, Urgot, Veigar, Viktor, Vladimir, Warwick, Xerath,

Uncertain
Fizz, Gangplank, Hecarim, Maokai, Ms. Fortune, Mordekaiser, Nautilus, Nidalee, Orianna, Rammus, Riven, Sejuani, Trundle, Twitch, Varus, Zyra


Reasons for changes: Three ninjas from good to neutral, because they are dedicated to Balance, not Good. They would be equally willing to destroy a town as to save it, should that be required to balance some other action.

Lulu from good to neutral: Her lore expressly says that she enjoys changing children into things (against their will), and that her morality is much closer to purple and green than black and white.

Rumble from good to neutral: he's motivated by a desire to "show them all." Bitterness and anger are large parts of his character.

Ziggs from good to neutral: Primarily wants to improve his hextech explosives (neither a good nor evil goal), and not above causing significant property damage in the process of developing them.

Evelynn from neutral to evil: She's a spy secondly, and an assassin firstly, specializing in subterfuge and murder, either for her own sake or that of whatever power lurks in the Shadow Isles. EVIL.

Karthus from Neutral to Evil: He...wants to kill everybody and turn them undead. That's about as evil as it gets, I feel.

Nasus moved from neutral to good: Protection and guarding innocents is a common theme in Nasus' literature, as is responsibility and a desire to save his brother.

Renekton moved from neutral to evil: He's a psychopathic cannibal.

Varus moved from Neutral to unknown: He was probably originally good, or at least neutral, however after giving himself (willingly) over to the corruption, it is unknown to us how this has affected him and his morality, though presumably the it has not been a positive influence.

Vladimir moved from neutral to evil: He is explicitly stated to enjoy ripping the blood from a person's body just because he thinks it looks wonderful. Absolutely no empathy for the suffering he causes, and a desire to practice his craft freely and frequently for his own benefit make him definitely evil.

Xerath neutral to evil: Seems neutral, save for one line, where it mentions that the mages who imprisoned him were concerned about his "careless disregard for life." Striving for power regardless of collateral damage is evil.

Kog'Maw and Cho'gath moved from evil to neutral: These two certainly exhibit evil characteristics, but like Lulu, I feel like they're more Blue and Orange morality. They embody hunger, and as far as I can tell have little to no personal agency, or choice, outside of their inherent natures. Simply put, they can't NOT act the way they do.

Darius moved from evil to good: Noxian does not equal evil. He is a loyal and courageous soldier, who doesn't take any real pleasure from killing people, and doesn't seem to do it when unnecessary, but is dedicated to the ideals of his nation. These are good qualities.

Draven moved from evil to neutral: Obviously much more self centered than his brother, and thus not good. However, he also doesn't just randomly kill people, he executes condemned criminals. He just does so in an entertaining fashion, and has decided to use his skill in that field to increase his own standing.

Katarina and Talon moved from evil to neutral: Assassin, and so not good, but also dedicated to their nation, and not one to kill randomly, but rather assigned targets in the course of Noxian war. Both were also extremely (perhaps even unselfishly) devoted to General Du Cuteau.

Swain moved from Evil to neutral: Tempted to put that one as uknown, as we really don't know a lot about Swain, all things considered. However, we haven't seen him do much which is without a doubt evil, either, that I can think of.

As for the unknowns: Fizz I'd say is neutral, as are Gangplank, Maokai, Ms. Fortune, Nidalee, Nautilus, Orianna, Rammus, Sejuani, Twitch, and Zyra.

Hecarim and Mordekaiser are evil

Riven is good.
Darius holds no regrets to what weapons Zaun used during the Ionian invasion, including the notorious melters which caused people like Riven to abandon the Noxian cause entirely like Sivir. He is very much evil. Draven as previewed as Gladiator Draven was described as this:

Quote:
You see that Gladiator and defiant villain who sowed terror in the Arenas of Justice? Has just launched its sharp blades against you! Escape while you can! Gladiator Draven is among us!"
Darius is pragmatically evil, Draven is just outright psychotic in the ring.

Swain is also evil since he works with the Black Rose and simply took over the overlord position from the inept Darkwills.

I will probably bump Talon to Neutral Evil, while he is loyal to Du Couteau, he is not loyal to Noxus as he has racked up a sizable bounty by killing all of those assassins aiming to recruit/kill him and still live in the sewers despite being offered a chance of living in the Ivory Quarter with the rest of the Du Couteaus. The moment he learns of the death of the guy who killed him is when he goes back to working inside the sewers as a killer for hire.


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Apaulcalypse NOW

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanock View Post
I haven't read all of the lore, only the profiles, but here's my take on some characters.

From the character profile, Kayle is from the faction that "proclaimed themselves as beings of perfect order and justice, fighting to unite the world under their law and strong central governance," while Morgana opposes those "who would sacrifice individuality and freedom for the illusion of efficiency and safety."

From this, I tend to think of Kayle as leaning towards evil. Much of the evil done in this world comes from people who, believing themselves right, try to force others to do things their way in the name of some possibly well-intentioned yet f*'d up self-aggrandized sense of justice or order. Think crusaders and conquistadors, jihadists, communists, socialists, and imperialists, etc.

Morgana opposing this and taking the fall for standing on principle, in my view, makes her at least neutral, if not good..
Ok i'm so tired of seeing the morgana is good post NO MORGANA IS NOT GOOD. Morgana is pure evil and kayle is amazingly good if you read the lore you can see that. Kayle just wants to protect her soceity and people also in her lore it states that she leaves people alive if she can rip the wickidness out of them and only kills if she has to. Morgana wants to turn society into chaos i mean if she doesnt like her city then why not leave instead of trying to fight them with dark magic? or their can be another way that is actually good in which she can protest.


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Aurasai

Member

04-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apaulcalypse NOW View Post
Ok i'm so tired of seeing the morgana is good post NO MORGANA IS NOT GOOD. Morgana is pure evil and kayle is amazingly good if you read the lore you can see that. Kayle just wants to protect her soceity and people also in her lore it states that she leaves people alive if she can rip the wickidness out of them and only kills if she has to. Morgana wants to turn society into chaos i mean if she doesnt like her city then why not leave instead of trying to fight them with dark magic? or their can be another way that is actually good in which she can protest.
And I am tired of seeing Morgana as the ultimate seed of evil. I am speaking this as both an atheist by religios and anarchist by political alignment (and no we are not the kind that want to see the world burn as we are made to look). Chaos and Order cannot exist without each other. Without Chaos, Order eventually turns into Opression and Slavery. If it ware not for Chaos, we would still live in "Roman" Imperial regime with hardly any technical progress and slavery still being a major part of our world. To build a more liberal and effective system, first the previous one needs to be destroyed!

By her lore Morgana is trying to free her people from the "Order" that exist in her world. Most likely just talking with her rulers only branded her as an outcast, a heretic, a parasite and enemy of society where she had no other way but to fight for her own freedom and for the freedom of everyone who share her believes. Every action someone takes has a reason behind it, if an action is branded as evil it means that the given action is entirely selfish and it depends entirely on the person who is giving judgement upon it. Before her "downfall" Morgana used to have a position similar to Kayle, with similar power, wealth and prestige. If Morgana's actions ware to be selfish, why would she give up on all of the things she allready had, for the sake of others? By all this I don't see a single reason anyone could brand her as "evil" except out of pure ignorance. I think if not Chaotic Good she is at worse Chaotic Neutral, as oposed to Kayle who is Lawful Neutral.


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duckRUSH

Junior Member

04-03-2013

I think the focus of Demacian and Noxus champions should be turned away from good vs. evil and call it what it really is. On the Demacian side we have justice at the expense of freedom. It's why almost every Demacian champion is some sort of upper crust or brought in as a favor to some sort of upper crust (Quinn being the possible exception). You want to have a good life in Demacia, you better be able to pay for it.

Noxus on the other hand is freedom at the price of safety. Many Noxian champions are from lower class backgrounds including the head of Noxus, Swain. It's an absolutely brutal meritocracy where many are thrown to the gutter, but they have the freedom to rise just as they have the freedom to fall. Noxus also puts its money where its mouth is by honoring and enshrining those who challenge authority to a duel. If you want a good life in Noxus you better be able to take it, either by being the best fighter or the smartest.

My opinion on them, "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Ben Franklin