Creative Design AMA - Kha'Zix, the Voidreaver

First Riot Post
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20thCenturyFaux

QA Analyst

09-21-2012
5 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMeta88 View Post
....not sure if trolling or if you don't know Sci Fi 101. Godzilla is Godzilla. Please don't represent Riot at the tokyo Game Show if you guys go there. Xenomorphs...Alien and Aliens. Nough said. But I do think your trolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
He's referring to Alien-style infestation vs more conventional "smash em to bits and start munching": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(...se)#Facehugger
Not trolling, just unsure what you meant by "approach". Kha'Zix is neither Godzilla nor a Xenomorph; he does not destroy for destruction's own sake or because he has been disturbed, nor does he eat purely for sustenance. However, neither is he a Xenomorph; he is not perpetuating a race, creating offspring, or even participating in a life-cycle. Who can say what caused Kha'Zix to exist, or how long such a thing might live? His entire genetic structure is regenerated and altered on a regular basis. There is no degradation of copy that causes living things to grow old and die. It may be that Kha'Zix could live on forever if he is not slain. For such a being, infesting another holds little purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMeta88 View Post
Kekekekekeeke. While your here, I had an idea. We have had creatures who have come over from the void. We have had people see "into" the void. Could there be a Voidwalker? Speculation go! Perhaps, a tortured soul who has spent a long time fighting the horrors of the void while being trapped in the void itself.

Could he be the higher order that has "given" Kha his mission?
Speculation about the Void is fun on a bun ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMeta88 View Post
Also, on a couple points you act as if Kha has been a willing participant in a sort of discussion interview. Is this just you not knowing or the idea that the League actually sat and tried to talk to Kha. A sort of judgement style thing. If so, how much does the league hope to gain from these "interviews"? How cooperative are some champions? I could see Rengar being an easy chat. Syndra a bit more difficult. But a creature of death, adaptation and evolution coming from a place that almost nothing is known of would seem to blunt any questions imo. So how does Kha respond?
Kha'Zix is capable of speech, and I could see him talking to other Void beings. Beyond that, it's all hypothetical. If it's more interesting to imagine his response as speech, that's what I do; if it's better to describe from the outside, I do that instead. To my knowledge, Kha'Zix has never engaged in a formal interview.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Point View Post
- Second follow up being, will there be any expeditions to these creatures place of origin?
An interesting question. I can definitely see Zaun, and possibly even Piltover, mounting such an expedition. Whether it's possible, what would happen, and what any hypothetical travelers might find... well, that's a whole nother kettle of fish!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding an Sich View Post
How would those who have seemingly shrewed minds, or other wordly power fair being absorbed by Khaz? For example but not limited to: swain. You have touched on if he were to absorb those with high intellect it actually may lead to an inferior path because it would stray from what he believes the perfect goal to be, but generally those with a vast and cruel intelligence have powers that would be much desired, no?
Interesting dichotomy, isn't it? It may be that Kha'Zix has devoured beings of high intellect in the past, only to find the extra burden more cumbersome than helpful. Personally, I believe that he has yet to adapt himself a strong mind, but when he does, he'll have to deal with the difference between his instinct and his reason. If he can reconcile the two, he will be much, much stronger for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imclueless View Post
I'm not so much saying that the events on the Field of Justice are restricting them. I'm very aware that the Champions certainly have lives of their own. I think I worded my last post poorly (or I'm misinterpreting yours, which is entirely possible o.0).

I'm aware that Kha'Zix or Rengar could very well die off of the Fields of Justice, and that is what would likely happen between these two at some point, with one of them killing the other. Rather, I'm saying that by virtue of them being Champions, it can't happen in established canonical lore. Riot couldn't say "Kha'Zix killed Rengar. We're now deleting him from the game. I hope you enjoyed playing him while you could." Them being Champions doesn't stop their conflict from resolving in-universe, but it does stop it from resolving out-of-universe. So, in a sense, their resolution is prevented, but it's not by anything the Lore team has control of. This was the impossibility I was attempting to highlight in my last post.

Am I a little more coherent this time around?
Oh, I understood you perfectly, but I don't think I agree about there being a problem. We're fully comfortable telling stories with our champions in ways that don't disturb gameplay. If we chose to resolve the Rengar / Kha'Zix conflict, even with one or both dying, I can imagine a number of methods we could use that wouldn't involve messing with which champions are available to pick in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larcent View Post
Odd question, but now that the bug is out of the bag, will Regnar's lore be edited a touch to actually refer to Kha'zix more specifically? It seems weird to have Regnar's background be so mysterious now that we know who it's talking about.
I think we're happy with Rengar's bio the way it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolosaurus View Post
Does Kha'Zix view Yordles as easy prey?
Also, what was his first reaction to how hard they could fight back? (especially Poppy)
Lastly, would he want any of their traits?
Yes, surprise, and no, respectively. He would almost certainly become curious as to how they could fight back when they had no desirable traits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imclueless View Post
Well, she DID get sucked into the Void when Malzahar and Kassadin had their confrontation in Zaun...

Or is my memory faulty?
Sucked in, yes, but the Void is a harsh and terrible place. I had meant to ask it sneaky-like, but I'll ask it here plainly: Did she arrive intact on the other side? Does Kassadin's ability to Riftwalk around Valoran imply a possibility that she never reached the Void at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
This is more of a sideways question aimed at the Void in general, but: You mentioned that "there are things mortals aren't meant to know". Does that mean immortals like Kayle, Nasus, or Anivia are capable of grasping information about the Void without it turning them into Void creature wannabes?

And on that note, what is Kha'Zix' opinion of Nasus? Keeping in mind how powerful his lore portrays him (orders of magnitude more powerful than the summoners as a group, playing in the League and by the League's rules solely to capture and kill Renekton)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMeta88 View Post
I can probably... probabyl soley set on Rengar.
Perhaps. The minds of immortals tend to be stronger and deeper than mortals, but considering the intensely dangerous nature of studying the Void, would they really want to try?

Kha'Zix sees Nasus as a physical being, and lacks the abstract reasoning to understand the true extent of Nasus's power. If Kha'Zix adapted a greater intellect, he would likely be very intrigued by Nasus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMeta88 View Post
Yeah this concerns me a bit. I would hope riot would be a bit more familiar with their own lore. Whether they are relatively new or not.
I have my UFO Corki the old-fashioned way. New to LoL lore? I think not! I would gladly expound upon my opinions of, say, Reginald Ashram, but these are things I must keep to myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amathris View Post
So from here on out, I have to write my own headcanon if I want to connect the characters you create to the gameplay I experience? That doesn't feel awesome.
No, you don't have to write your own headcanon to connect the characters to the gameplay, far from it! We specifically focus on the character interaction, backstory, personality and relationships in order to lend more connection to the gameplay you experience. Your interactions with other champions are far more frequent, more emotionally intense, and more interesting story-wise. Leona and Diana are great examples of characters where our lore focus pays off in-game, and Kha'Zix and Rengar have even more game-to-lore connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amathris View Post
I guess part of it is just the frustration of not knowing what you folks in the lore department are planning to do to expand the lore of League of Legends, but the glimpses we have seen make it seem like the League itself is no longer going to be part of the story.

We could really use some kind of update to the "Where our Lore is Going" thread. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1680645
I'll pass this sentiment along for sure. There's always room to do a better job communicating with the community, and everyone's sick of hearing "we're working on cool stuff".

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakblade5 View Post
Will kha'zix and rengar have lines specific to each other?
Indeed they do!


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

09-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post


Interesting dichotomy, isn't it? It may be that Kha'Zix has devoured beings of high intellect in the past, only to find the extra burden more cumbersome than helpful. Personally, I believe that he has yet to adapt himself a strong mind, but when he does, he'll have to deal with the difference between his instinct and his reason. If he can reconcile the two, he will be much, much stronger for it.
Well it seems if he ever adapted an intellect that is shrewd and possibly tampered like swain, or that of Heimdinger, he would fall into a few categories of.. behavior I'd wager.

With a dark intellect like Swain I feel he'd fall into a "become one with the universe, and thus perfection" mind set, or he might even be pushed depending how he deals with an existential crisis, to a more nihilistic view of things.

If he ever ate a more pure but curious intellect such as heimdinger... I feel he would be inclined to twist the very nature of what it means to exist, or even what he is. By which I mean should he absorb things that are non-corporeal (if possible), should he try to blend with things that are more attune to nature, should he harvest the power of the god's or gain immortality? I feel he would be less distracted by what he himself should be doing, and be more preoccupied with doing for the sake of it.

Anyway fun speculation, can't wait to see how the champion truly is!


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TheMeta88

Senior Member

09-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
Not trolling, just unsure what you meant by "approach". Kha'Zix is neither Godzilla nor a Xenomorph; he does not destroy for destruction's own sake or because he has been disturbed, nor does he eat purely for sustenance. However, neither is he a Xenomorph; he is not perpetuating a race, creating offspring, or even participating in a life-cycle. Who can say what caused Kha'Zix to exist, or how long such a thing might live? His entire genetic structure is regenerated and altered on a regular basis. There is no degradation of copy that causes living things to grow old and die. It may be that Kha'Zix could live on forever if he is not slain. For such a being, infesting another holds little purpose.

hergen...ooogha....eeeeeegh. raaaaaagh! SKINS MAN SKINS! Why go Mechagodzilla Kha'Zix when everyone wanted something more xenomorph related. I mean come on rengar was clearly a predator in his other skins. So why not go AVP in this john. it was perfect.


Speculation about the Void is fun on a bun ^^

Indeed, I have so many ideas. A lot brought in from other "dark zones" in other universes. Like the Abyss in Dark Souls etc.



Kha'Zix is capable of speech, and I could see him talking to other Void beings. Beyond that, it's all hypothetical. If it's more interesting to imagine his response as speech, that's what I do; if it's better to describe from the outside, I do that instead. To my knowledge, Kha'Zix has never engaged in a formal interview.



An interesting question. I can definitely see Zaun, and possibly even Piltover, mounting such an expedition. Whether it's possible, what would happen, and what any hypothetical travelers might find... well, that's a whole nother kettle of fish!



Interesting dichotomy, isn't it? It may be that Kha'Zix has devoured beings of high intellect in the past, only to find the extra burden more cumbersome than helpful. Personally, I believe that he has yet to adapt himself a strong mind, but when he does, he'll have to deal with the difference between his instinct and his reason. If he can reconcile the two, he will be much, much stronger for it.



Oh, I understood you perfectly, but I don't think I agree about there being a problem. We're fully comfortable telling stories with our champions in ways that don't disturb gameplay. If we chose to resolve the Rengar / Kha'Zix conflict, even with one or both dying, I can imagine a number of methods we could use that wouldn't involve messing with which champions are available to pick in the game.



I think we're happy with Rengar's bio the way it is.



Yes, surprise, and no, respectively. He would almost certainly become curious as to how they could fight back when they had no desirable traits.



Sucked in, yes, but the Void is a harsh and terrible place. I had meant to ask it sneaky-like, but I'll ask it here plainly: Did she arrive intact on the other side? Does Kassadin's ability to Voidwalk around Valoran imply a possibility that she never reached the Void at all?

This is where my Voidwalker idea comes from. I don't really see Kassadin as such since he really only peaked in and let the Void inside him to live. I believe that beings can survive traversing the walls of the world. That creatures can come through and that people can also be sent across. I think just saying she got crushed by the void is a cop out and a sad way to **** on a good champion idea.



Perhaps. The minds of immortals tend to be stronger and deeper than mortals, but considering the intensely dangerous nature of studying the Void, would they really want to try?

Kha'Zix sees Nasus as a physical being, and lacks the abstract reasoning to understand the true extent of Nasus's power. If Kha'Zix adapted a greater intellect, he would likely be very intrigued by Nasus.



I have my UFO Corki the old-fashioned way. New to LoL lore? I think not! I would gladly expound upon my opinions of, say, Reginald Ashram, but these are things I must keep to myself.



No, you don't have to write your own headcanon to connect the characters to the gameplay, far from it! We specifically focus on the character interaction, backstory, personality and relationships in order to lend more connection to the gameplay you experience. Your interactions with other champions are far more frequent, more emotionally intense, and more interesting story-wise. Leona and Diana are great examples of characters where our lore focus pays off in-game, and Kha'Zix and Rengar have even more game-to-lore connection.

If rengar kills Kha he gets his skull instead of bonetooth but the bonuses and stacks are the same :P


I'll pass this sentiment along for sure. There's always room to do a better job communicating with the community, and everyone's sick of hearing "we're working on cool stuff".



Indeed they do!
I want to sort of create a dump of ideas for Void lore. Since you are talking with us on it mind if I send it to you at some point? I will need some time to wrap my head around it. I must take my time as well cause as we know studying the void can be dangerous.


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RedDevilCG

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Senior Member

09-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakblade5
Will kha'zix and rengar have lines specific to each other?


Indeed they do!
Could you elaborate on this a bit more. Are you saying they have unique dialogue for when they are both in game at the same time?

I currently don't hear anything much in Rengar's dialogue that relates atm....


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Zanes theNArgent

Senior Member

09-21-2012

Hey, Faux, here's a proposal: How, or what do you think Kha'Zix would evolve to if he was in a oceanic environment?


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MortifyMore

Senior Member

09-21-2012

What does Kha'zix do if he realizes his "prey," is far beyond him, for example if he were to fight Cho'gath or Renekton and end up on the verge of death quickly? Does he run, or attempt to win anyway?

Additionally what does he think of mental traits? Would he see Renekton's endless fury as a must-have, or Swain's tactician prowess as extremely powerful? Can he even evolve those traits, or only physical ones?


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

09-21-2012

Ooh, I have a question. Since Kha'Zix dislikes fighting and absorbing inferior creatures, how does he feel about repetitively fighting jungle monsters or lasthitting minions? And how about Nautilus? He's one of the biggest and most "monster-like" of the League champions (other than actual Void ones that is).


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Risiblë

Senior Member

09-21-2012

I got a couple you mentioned that it Kha'zix would die before he is imprisoned if so then what does the league do about his Habits of killing things and eating them and since he is in the league people would learn about him so yeah what would the league do?

And how do you think he would feel about Nidalee Shyvana and Udyr seeing as they can change as well?

And is this his first time into Valoran?


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Gixia

Senior Member

09-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
No, you don't have to write your own headcanon to connect the characters to the gameplay, far from it! We specifically focus on the character interaction, backstory, personality and relationships in order to lend more connection to the gameplay you experience. Your interactions with other champions are far more frequent, more emotionally intense, and more interesting story-wise. Leona and Diana are great examples of characters where our lore focus pays off in-game, and Kha'Zix and Rengar have even more game-to-lore connection.
In theory, perhaps. In practice, more and more characters are being written with such intense desire to put a permanent end to one another that it's difficult to imagine any interactions between them on the Fields of Justice at all, simply because the conflicts that drive them to face each other (and could theoretically drive them to the League to find one another) can't actually be resolved there. Just using Kha'Zix as an example, he seems like he would have no interest in it, because no death while under the effect of summoner magic is permanent. I would assume this makes him incapable of consuming the corpses of champions he kills there, and thus the whole thing becomes a waste of his time that could be better spent hunting down the champions OFF the field of justice where they're more vulnerable. Though one of Rengar's interactions with Kha'Zix potentially argues against this? When Rengar kills Kha'Zix, his Bonetooth Necklace is replaced with Kha'Zix's head, so maybe the corpses left behind are real, even if they're revived shortly after. Or more likely it's just a fake created by the magical in the area, and once the battle is over, Kha'Zix's head vanishes into the ether, just a summoned illusion, but then we're back to square one of there not actually being any resolution.

Perhaps if Kha'Zix was more capable of long-term planning, he could use the Fields of Justice has practice for how best to kill them, but you specifically stated that he does not (at least currently) possess this type of logical reasoning.

More champions need to have goals and interactions with each other that AREN'T based around a desire to kill one another. I kinda like Sejuani vs. Ashe. Sejuani wants to unite Freljord under her leadership instead of Ashe's, but she doesn't need to kill Ashe to do it. She just needs to prove that she's superior than her and the people of Freljord will flock to her on their own (or at least so she believes). And she needs to keep proving that she's better in order to show that it wasn't a one off event or a lucky break. This leads to believable scenarios in which they can be pitted against one another, both off and (especially) on the Fields of Justice again and again, while still remaining believable and adding tension to their rivalry.

In comparison, Kha'Zix and Rengar don't want to beat one another, they want to kill one another. One wants to eat the other, while the other wants the first's head mounted on his wall. Neither of these goals can be achieved on the field, and neither character is written in such a way as to imply they would want to fight the other if there was no possibility of achieving their objective. This lessens any tension that would be encountered in-game because it makes any encounter between the two inherently less believable, and ultimately works to further the divide between gameplay and story.

Not that there CAN'T ever be two champions who want each other dead. Swain and Jarvan are a good example of two champs who want to kill each other, but who can still justifiably be pitted against each other on the Field. Hell, Swain straight up tries to murder Jarvan during his judgement but is interrupted. It's perfectly reasonable to imagine the two (Swain particularly) plotting ways to off one another off the field behind closed doors, while still meeting up on the field with their public faces on as representatives of their respective city states to do battle, even though there's no way to permanently put an end to each other there.

But lately, the champions we're getting just don't seem able to co-exist in the league. Rengar and Kha'Zix, Diana and Leona, Warwick and Soraka post rewrite, etc. They don't have groups or organizations that they represent on the Fields, they don't have personalities or objectives where leaving the opponent alive and free is an acceptable outcome, and they don't have goals which would realistically bring them into the League in the first place. And the end result is that our frequent encounters in-game make less sense, become less intense, less interesting, and less emotionally investing. The story drifts further away from the actual game, and both suffer for it.


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Rob Lockster

Senior Member

09-21-2012

This reminds me of the Chimera Ants from Hunter x Hunter. I really like the design of the new champion, it's sweet and I'll definitely be getting Kha'Zix the moment it comes out.