Draven: A detailed Spinning Axe feedback and a question!

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Ginga

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

DRAVEN APPROVES OF PEOPLE WHO TAKES THE TIME READING WALLS OF TEXTS

So having practiced Draven for a bit in my account and a on a friend's who just bought Draven, I, uh....kinda like him in some ways, but feels he's rather clunky in other ways. If you want a quick assessment, here.

Good:
-he has character, one thing everyone likes about Draven, you guys nailed him when it comes to his character, not to mention, nice AA animations
-his ability to chase down enemies is simply glorious. He can picking off that one last enemy at the end of a teamfight, in other words, Draven really shines in fights your team just won, more importantly, catching his axes can be fun sometimes
-unlike Miss Fortune, Draven has some form of self-defence. They're not great at all, but better than relying on a Passive that disappears after getting hit by a slight breeze(buff Miss Fortune dammnit!)

Bad:
-he suffers a bit of "Miss Fortune syndrome", he has mediocre range without a gap closer to compensate, he's not as terrible as her since atleast he has short speed boost
-spinning axes is a MAJOR attention drain, to top it off, it's incredibly easy for an enemy to take advantage of Draven trying to catch it
-if he doesn't actively catch his axes in a fight, Draven has nothing to offer compared to other AD Carries
-he has no middleground. Every Draven's I've seen and my own experience with Draven tells me either he tears the enemy team apart, or he's absolute trash


Now it's time to get more in-depth with the feedback, mostly on his Spinning Axe(Q), which is what holds his entire kit together.

***FEEDBACK***

Index:
1) Problems controlling the axe when target is anything below 550 range from you
2) Axes too easy to predict by enemies
3) Luck


1) One strategy I've found helpful when playing Draven is to activate Q, attack, and immediately move back or to the side to lead the axe to a more predictable and easy path to catch. BUT the problem with this strategy is while it's doable at a distance, if the enemy is anything less than 550 range away from you, controlling the axe is far too difficult.

Draven's attack animation combined with the speed at which his projectile flies barely gives him enough time to move inbetween auto-attacks before it connects with the target. As a result? The axe hits the targets before I make the move command, meaning it won't predict my path and instead drop randomly on the location I moved out of. This will completely throw my rhythm out, which results in my entire kit shutting down. If you're REALLY unlucky, the axe randomly falls in the complete opposite direction you tried to run to. Now try to imagine if your opponent happens to be melee and you want to try to escape by refreshing your W with catching an axe.

2) This one is short and simple. The enemy sees the icon meant for Draven player to see and catch his Q easier. Why the hell is the enemy able to see Draven's icon?! That makes it way too easy to counter him. A Leona can fire her stun into the landing of the axe, or the Draven can not catch the axe and suddenly he lost his central ability. Worse, even if you intended to give the enemy that much of an advantage, they could just look at the axe itself, they don't need a large glowing icon.

3) In a dedicated fight, Draven will find himself just standing still and auto-attacking. This means the axe will either fall directly on his head or randomly around him. If the axe falls to his side or behind him it's annoying to catch it while the enemy is shooting you, but it's worth it to keep up your W and constant Q damage. If the axe keeps landing on your head, jackpot baby! BUT if the axe lands in any direction that aims towards your enemy, you're screwed. I've had times where I got really lucky and all the axes landing directly in where I wanted to reposition, or all directly on my head as I auto-attacked all fight long. The enemy team were torn to shreds. But there were times where the axe seems to be actively trying to get me to go melee range on the enemy champions, forcing me to back off and fight without spinning axes.

In short, there is a bit too much of a luck factor when using his Q in a long dedicated fight. It's hard enough to catch it in the heat of battle. But it's when the axe actively tries to sabotage you is where it kinda hurts.


***SUGGESTIONS***

1) To make axes easier to control if the enemy is closer than 550 range to you, it would be nice if he had 575 range like Varus instead. This gives a 25 range leeway so that it's possible to lead his axes even if the enemy edges in a direction towards you even by a little. It'll still be a ***** to catch if the enemy comes any closer, atleast you have breathing room now.

Alternatively, reprogram the axe so that if it behaves as though you're standing in place only to detect that you started moving in a direction not according to as where the axe predicted while at the peak of it's bounce, it will attempt to predict your new location and slowly home in on that new position from where it originally predicted you'll be.

Alternatively, if the enemy is sufficiently close to Draven with his Spinning Axe primed, he will not spin his axes, instead he will swing them like a buzzsaws, inflicting damage as though the Q is active, with every second attack if he has 1 spinning axe and every attack if he has 2 spinning axes. The obvious consequence of this is his 4 second steroid won't refresh if he fights like this. The benefit is he won't get ****ed over by his erratic axes if the enemy gets even a little close to him.

2) This one is simple. Remove the icon for enemies to see, please. Or atleast make it so that the enemy will see the icon and 5 randomly generated icons to throw them off. >_>

3) When attacking while standing still, make it so that if the axe determines where to land, it will prioritize an area that's opposite from where the most enemy champions are.

Alternatively, add a 3rd ability to his W. Make it so upon activation, Draven will increase his reach for 0.5 seconds, allowing him to catch even the axes that grazes his model.


Lastly...

***QUESTION***

In late game after you have your generic AD carry build, should Draven bother catching his axes in a teamfight or should he stand and continue attacking without his Q?

From what I can tell...on one hand if I do catch the axe, that's time spent moving around and not DPSing like an AD Carry should. On the other hand if I don't catch the axe, then Draven has absolutely nothing to offer compared to most other AD Carries. He is entire being revolves around those spinny axes.

So which Draven has higher DPS? One who spits on his kit and auto-attacks? Or one who takes the time to catch axes when he can? I am positive that this question, as well as his unusually high risk, is reason why you don't ever see high level players play him anymore.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

I'm sorry, I just had enough time to get past your pros/cons list.

1. You say he can chase an opponent well, but he has no escapes...Now, I've played quite a bit of Draven, and last I knew, he didn't have a direct-target gap closer in his kit, so generally that means his chasing is also usable as an escape.
2. You point out that his core design, Spinning Axes, is too much micromanagement and all he has in a fight. Well, never mind that Stand Aside is actually amazing, Whirling Death is pretty good, and Spinning Axe has a low cooldown, but that's kind of the POINT of Draven. You're supposed to be deciding whether or not catching your axe is going to be worth it.
3. His axes actually don't have much trouble controlling, until you're around 300 range, and that's because of how his attack animation acts. I do agree that the animation needs to feel less clunky, but that's the only really bad thing I ever notice on him.


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iiTzHaZe

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Recruiter

09-20-2012

He's a mediocre champion with a useless kit in team fights, explains your entire post. Catching axes while fighting more than 2 people can cause death and his ult is terrible but as a finisher to LOW health enemies.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

09-20-2012

I have to agree that Draven's got decent team fight power. It's that he's got no real survivability that he falls flat.

The Attack - Stand Aside - Whirling Death - Attack sequence will 100-0 a squishy if you can time it right, but it's the whole "You can't really run if they get to you" that makes it such a risky combo, since it uses your main deterrent.


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MusicalSoeki

Junior Member

09-20-2012

If you build toward solid attack damage, his kit becomes way more potent. For example, I go into Two Doran's Blades, Berserker's Greaves, Two BF Swords and Pick Axe, then I build Bloodthirst and IE, then Maw, then it depends on the other team's comp what I build.

If enemies are chasing in a line, baiting them all into close enough range for a maxed out Draven ult right through the whole team, it'll tear the squishies apart instantly and leave time for you to finish them and deal with their tankier champs. Done it a lot and have a definite success rate with Draven. He's my main go to win champ. xD


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Ginga

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Senior Member

09-21-2012

It is important to point out that...building AD on any AD Carries will turn them into monsters as long as you're building the right AD items...


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Jeanschyso

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Senior Member

09-21-2012

how about building only items that don't increase attack speed, a build like boots of swiftness, IE, BT, BT, Last whisper, and a defensive item

that gives you enough time between your attacks to catch every axe without sacrificing damage.


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Douggie

Senior Member

09-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by QcGS Jeanschyso View Post
how about building only items that don't increase attack speed, a build like boots of swiftness, IE, BT, BT, Last whisper, and a defensive item

that gives you enough time between your attacks to catch every axe without sacrificing damage.
Then you're sacrificing DPS since you're losing a full 80% attack speed from Greaves/PD. His Q is good. It's not THAT good.

Still, I tend to stall on the PD as long as I can. The AD just does so much more for him early on.


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Ashaeron

Junior Member

09-21-2012

I've found Dorans/Zerkers/Thirster/Zeal/IE works pretty well. The zeal gives him a much needed edge in passive movement speed for catching (allowing those last-second twitch catches). Admittedly my ranked stats are horrifying, but I stand by the fact you need SOME attack speed for when catching the axes just isn't viable.


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Ginga

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Senior Member

09-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggie View Post
Then you're sacrificing DPS since you're losing a full 80% attack speed from Greaves/PD. His Q is good. It's not THAT good.

Still, I tend to stall on the PD as long as I can. The AD just does so much more for him early on.
Do you get a Zeal somewhere early-mid-ish atleast for the MS and crits though?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaeron
I've found Dorans/Zerkers/Thirster/Zeal/IE works pretty well.
Okay, this literally applies to all ranged AD's. Any ranged carry will do amazing with all that.


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