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what's with the jungler assassins?

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BrandedIce

Junior Member

09-23-2012

Quote:
Thubgar:

getting the most from her ult requires you use it for long term (1 per 6 seconds) dps as opposed to burst, which is unlike an assassin.
"pull everyone around on top of me" is the last thing an assassin wants to do.
an ap shield is actually very unlike any assassin. the closest comparison is eve who doesn't scale.

and the passive you call burst requires you to commit to hitting someone 3 times. it would actually behoove a proper assassin to deal 1/3 the damage each attack


Diana can fulfill multiple roles depending on style and items.

Yes, using Q->R every 6 (depending on cd reduc) is a good way to preserve your ult and maintain damage. But this is key to diana's more assassin-like play style. She can switch from sustained chase/damage to immaburstdisnublul!!1! on a dime which also helps in team fights later on.

Q->R->W->R is plenty of burst for most squishies and gets her in, on her target, and out quicky. *the mark of an assassin play style*

The E is perfect for an assassin as it puts them right where you want em for your passive damage and slows them ensuring the damage unless they flash or use an escape mechanic, which if you are playing an assassin you wait for before popping it. This is also helped by its short range so you don't pull the whole team on top of your head in team fights. Then we get to the fun part of diana where she can also fulfill an initiator-like role, if built right, and pull tanks away from their carries and vice-versa destroying positioning.

Admittedly the shield is not something most assassins have. Still, having a skill that no one else has doesn't remove you from a class, it just gives you a unique role in that class. Not all assassins have a stealth passive like eve. Not all assassins have a spammable teleport like Kassadin. Not all assassins can be as tanky as Irelia or Xin Zhao. These added traits help in their assassin role, not detract from it.

All in all Diana is a very versatile champ who can fulfill many roles, one of them is an assassin.


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Vrael27

Senior Member

09-24-2012

rengar's ult makes him invisible longer, gives him sight, and allows him to jump to enemy. kah'zix however goes invisible shorter time, doesn't get sight, and can't jump to enemy with just ult, but only if using his e, WHICH IS NOT A DASH, IT IS A LEAP. and his leap isn't targeted on enemy like rengar's ult and passive, making it where he can leap over walls, or do dmg to several enemies instead of just 1 with it. AND kah'zix's ult can be cast 2 times before it goes on cd, OR 3 times before it goes on cd if you evolve his ult. AND every time you use his his ult it procs his passive, making him do more dmg every first atk he does when he leaves stealth. so they're quite different, and kah'zix doesn't have slow like bola strike, and instead of ferocity kah'zix has mana, and his w has a heal which hasn't ever been made before, a skil shot that only heals if kah'zix is in range of the AoE of the skill shot. AND he evolves changing the skill he choses in a specific way.... how is that not unique? several things about kah'zix have never been attempted before in LoL and will make him very fun to play, the reason for the recent jungler assassins is the previous lack of them. now jungler assassins have a choice, that makes sense. diana was a good jungle asassin, but she is a AP JUNGLE ASSASSIN! what about those that prefer ad jungle assassins? ok rengar is made, however his ferocity passive makes him very unique and odd compared to other champs, what if people want an ad jungle assassin that doesn't use ferocity??? Kah'zix solves this, and i for one am one of the people that would definitely prefer him over an ad ferocity champ, or an ap jungler champ, so i think creating Kah'Zix was great, and i can't wait to buy him, if you don't think so then just stfu.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Zix is the first jungler assassin I've ever heard of

Edit: assuming he's a jungler


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Quote:
Vrael27:
rengar's ult makes him invisible longer, gives him sight, and allows him to jump to enemy. kah'zix however goes invisible shorter time, doesn't get sight, and can't jump to enemy with just ult, but only if using his e, WHICH IS NOT A DASH, IT IS A LEAP. and his leap isn't targeted on enemy like rengar's ult and passive, making it where he can leap over walls, or do dmg to several enemies instead of just 1 with it. AND kah'zix's ult can be cast 2 times before it goes on cd, OR 3 times before it goes on cd if you evolve his ult. AND every time you use his his ult it procs his passive, making him do more dmg every first atk he does when he leaves stealth. so they're quite different, and kah'zix doesn't have slow like bola strike, and instead of ferocity kah'zix has mana, and his w has a heal which hasn't ever been made before, a skil shot that only heals if kah'zix is in range of the AoE of the skill shot. AND he evolves changing the skill he choses in a specific way.... how is that not unique? several things about kah'zix have never been attempted before in LoL and will make him very fun to play, the reason for the recent jungler assassins is the previous lack of them. now jungler assassins have a choice, that makes sense. diana was a good jungle asassin, but she is a AP JUNGLE ASSASSIN! what about those that prefer ad jungle assassins? ok rengar is made, however his ferocity passive makes him very unique and odd compared to other champs, what if people want an ad jungle assassin that doesn't use ferocity??? Kah'zix solves this, and i for one am one of the people that would definitely prefer him over an ad ferocity champ, or an ap jungler champ, so i think creating Kah'Zix was great, and i can't wait to buy him, if you don't think so then just stfu.

Assassin Rengar, hurrayyyy oh nevermind he got CC'd after sneaking up on the carry and can't disengage the tank

Assassin diana, yayyyy oh nevermind she got CCd and her shield is gone now. Can't disengage das tank!


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Vrael27

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Quote:
CerealBoxOfDoom:
Assassin Rengar, hurrayyyy oh nevermind he got CC'd after sneaking up on the carry and can't disengage the tank

Assassin diana, yayyyy oh nevermind she got CCd and her shield is gone now. Can't disengage das tank!


Assassin Kah'Zix, yayyy, he leaps in takes out squishy, then his leap is refreshed, so he uses ult to kill rest of squishys, then use w to heal, then leap out since it was refreshed


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Quote:
Vrael27:
Assassin Kah'Zix, yayyy, he leaps in takes out squishy, then his leap is refreshed, so he uses ult to kill rest of squishys, then use w to heal, then leap out since it was refreshed

Actual assassins who can actually be ready for the next persuit after getting a kill, hurrayyy


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Autocthon

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Similar kit =/= same playstyle.

Rengar Ult: 7+ seconds of stealth

Kha'Zix Ult: 1s of stealth 2(3) times.

Very clearly the same thing.

Rengar Passive: Gap closing spammable jump w/ conditional requirement

Kha'Zix Passive: Conditional damage bonus

Not seeing the overlap here... Are you talking about Kha'zix' E? The targeted jump with a midling cooldown?

The thing about ROLES is that ROLES need similar kits. Wanna know another assassin? Akali? Wanna know what she has?

+Bonus damage on attack
+Stealth
+Gap closer

So she must be EXACTLY THE SAME as Rengar and by extension Kha'zix?

Flawed logic is flawed.


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CamaHa

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Why not? maybe now ppl will stop QQing about shaco.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Quote:
CamaHa:
Why not? maybe now ppl will stop QQing about shaco.

Shaco, xin, fizz, and maybe a few other assassins are qq worthy. Not because they're broken but because of how they work.

Fizz can both ignore collision and spam untargetability. Not a huge issue if you're just reading but give that a little thought. How many future champion designs could get ruined by this sort of thing and should we care. Both are debatable and should occasionally be debated.

Shaco can also dodge targeting and do otherstuff ot the expense of having an underpowered gapcloser that gives stealth. Also the fact that his clone gets onhit bonuses and all is kindof a big deal. There's also the fact that towers prioritize the clone over him. All debatably, particularily degenerative. As a result he gets balanced on an ever changing scale.
Xin just has a really sustain combined with a knockup that requires little if any sacrifice to use. Irelia has the vice versa of this and she was attacked by morello over it. One could argue that the two are fine as they are but both, like vlad, abuse mechanics that will always be looked into whenever changes happen to the game


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