Creative Design AMA - Soraka and Warwick

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Dobyk

Member

09-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyj101 View Post
A bit disappointing. Not only are y'all once again minimilizing the Ionian conflict y'all removed the epic ness of sorakas corruption. I always enjoyed the thought of soraka looking over a field of bodies slain by warwicks inventions and letting out a scream of rage. And a light from the skies striking down Warwick from one of his machines. It was always so fun to imagine.

Also the change of warwicks background is rather upsetting. Wouldn't his new position of human trafficker make him more of an ally to Mundo not singed? This really destroys the fiber of their relationship and makes me very very very worried about what will happen to singed. Teemos rework was hard enough on me don't ruin another favorite champ for meT.T
*pardon the poor formatting on mobile device

Edit: after reading my post I realized I'm being a bit rude again. I wish I could rewrite but app crashing is at an all time high so I won't risk it. My apologies for the tone but I think the points stand
I think you made an excellent point. Soraka is no longer angry and epic...


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Dobyk

Member

09-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Granted, we could stand to clarify this a bit in the bio. Good note!


While I understand your concerns, I'd like to make a few points. First, I think it's a fairly surface-level read to say that the tension between Soraka and Warwick now only has one way to find resolution. Something I've been rolling around in my mind is the notion that Soraka could possibly save Warwick without having to give up her life/her blood for it--perhaps she could use her power to purify him, or heal his mind. The thing is, she might be too stubborn, too jaded, too mortal for that now--she's no longer divine, and with a mortal heart, she's prone to the same darkness that might creep upon anyone else. Perhaps the stars would want her to forgive Warwick, but will she? Can she?

Another small detail: Warwick still has that relationship with his power. He loves his bestial nature, he loves being a monster--what he doesn't love is the loss of his humanity, his wit, his ruthless intelligence that he once relied on perhaps even more than brawn. Warwick doesn't want to become human again--he just doesn't want to become a mindless beast.


Nothing happens in-game because this isn't a conflict that can be resolved on the Fields of Justice. You're right, that type of story doesn't have any tension or complexity, as it'd be over pretty quickly. This is something that is going to have to develop elsewhere. Perhaps Warwick will seek Vladimir's help, as I mentioned might be interesting earlier in this thread. Perhaps someone will capture Warwick and use him as a bargaining chip in exchange for use of Soraka's power, preying on the animosity between them. Perhaps Viktor will offer to help Warwick "stabilize" his transformation with a few mechanical upgrades... after all, feral urges and instinct are a product of his human mind. Who knows?

There are a lot of interesting possibilities where this could develop into complex stories--we don't want everything to begin and end with a character's bio. We want characters that can and will become involved in grander stories, plots, and conflicts. This story between Soraka and Warwick is meant to set the stage for more interaction with the whole of Valoran, not point to a singular resolution.

I don't understand why you make it as if Soraka is just a simple-minded, "pure" deity unable to feel anger. Seriously, in her old lore it was hinted that she evolved, that she was once human. The Divine Soraka is trans-human, not an actual goddess..... For me, in the old lore the dramatical moment comes from the fact that she is divine, yet she can STILL feel those primal, negative emotions. Ultimately, it is not the fact that she hurts or heals whoever she doesnt have to hurt/heal, but rather she allowed herself to adopt a mortal MINDSET and cast a hideous curse (which even to me is a transgression, as opposed to hurting a few mortals with pretty lights). Please reverse the lore change or at least use the OLD LORE as the basis for the new lore. You are not updating anything, you are just changing a champion. Sorry for the bitter tone


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Aurelignace

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Junior Member

09-19-2012

As a Soraka fan I don't like the new lore. It seems to me that you wanted to create the chemistry of two former lovers fighting against each other on the battlefield. Why not link one of the newer champions with each other instead or going back and retconning a perfectly good backstory?

Also, what resounded in Soraka's lore to me was how her downfall was caused by her own hand. It made the goat woman relateable. She knew better but gave into her desires. Her old lore gave her depth and she felt real. She's power hungry (wanting to reattain her deity form and powers), but she does good things. Where else do you have that kind of character in fiction?

Her new lore makes her a generic wood nymph who wants to heal all creatures. Boring in my opinion. I can't relate to a goody two shoes.

Also, the writing style irks me, the structure of sentences is too samey and a lot of things are redundant or are better off being alluded to.


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

09-19-2012

I really, really don't like the new Soraka lore. The flow of the story is extremely halting and cumbersome, but more generally, it's much less epic. Her current lore has her so filled with rage and hubris that she destroys herself to harm her enemy -- Warwick's a brutal werewolf now, but at least he isn't devising WMDs. That's a pretty cool story that leaves her with a goal of redemption. She's also one heck of a badass. This new lore, in addition to making her pretty darn inane, leaves her somewhat happy that she left her old existence. Why should she care about crossing the stars if they kept her trapped (as is the implication) and wouldn't let her help people except in the most straightforward ways possible?

EDIT: It's almost like the lore itself is telling Soraka players that they have no business being anything other than a mana/healbot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancholy Exile View Post
So forgive me:

In the old lore, Soraka is struck down for forcing a truly evil being to outwardly bear his soul.

In the new lore, Soraka falls from grace after using her powers to scare off some hired thugs.

Right?
This dichotomy is pretty much what I'm getting at: the new reason she fell is all kinds of lame. It makes sense for the stars to be pissed that she cursed someone's soul and turned them into a monster. It comes off as arbitrary for them to kick her out for giving some random guys light sunburn.


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Civilized Rat

Senior Member

09-19-2012

Now Soraka's lore...I don't like. But Warwick's I'm fine with.


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Pooterfly

Member

09-19-2012

I've got to admit that I'm genuinely disappointed in RIOTruann in not answering the questions with genuine criticism.

He seems intent on defending this new version and shutting out anything that contradicts his perception of it.

I had little desire to read most of the lore before. These remakes are killing the last vestige of it.

Flash fiction IS NOT USED TO TELL LORE. It's used to flavor it.

Look at the flavor text on MTG cards. Perfect example of flash fiction. Not even trying to tell the story but just gives glimpses of it.

Flash fiction is also great for just adding action or the barest inkling of a narrative to something.

Flash fiction is VERY poor for setting up lore.

Stop constraining yourself.


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Topagae

Junior Member

09-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane Azmadi View Post
This isn't actually too bad. Warwick being a mad chemist turned into a vicious werewolf was always kind of weird, and Soraka transforming him into a badass werewolf form which he enjoys was, as you stated, rather epic fail. The new lore is pretty good and explains why Warwick is called "the Blood Hunter".

Also, now it's actually possible we may see a "Pre-Transformation Warwick" skin since he'll be a vicious bounty hunter rather than a weedy mad scientist.


But this is just sad. Apparently even Riot forgets that Karma exists, since Warwick's transformation and Soraka's fall was the pivotal event of her Judgement. Mind you, since Judgements aren't done any more I doubt they'd even be bothered rewriting old obsolete ones. Which is even sadder.
Don't forget Riven. It's a bit of a continuity error, but she was there when Singed/Warwick(Karma's Judgement saw WW throwing chemicals, Riven it's Singed). Either way Riven's story is pivoted on seeing the carnage of the ongoing story of WW, Singed, and Soraka.


Now she's what? A lazy deserter from Noxus who broke her sword for no reason?


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

09-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooterfly View Post
Flash fiction IS NOT USED TO TELL LORE. It's used to flavor it.
I think we can all agree that we would be happier with the new champ backstory format if there were other lore coming out.


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Ask the Herald

Member

09-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilized Rat View Post
Since when did he have control over his bloodlust? It always controlled him, but he always came back from it. He still dabbled in alchemy (according to lore) but his bloodlust "drove him more than he did".

This hasn't changed. At all. In fact it's been made even more apparent that he's becoming a feeding, killing monster that lives only by his animal instincts and hunting will.

I can understand the negative critique for the new lore as there ARE some problems with it in my opinion, but let's not call it out for the wrong reasons due to the big confusion and sudden new lore. I might be biased because of my love for the character and otherwise, but overlooking things will get to be a problem if you actually do it. Could **** things up even more.
The point that was being made in the post you quoted was that Warwick didn't have any issues with his transformation. It's like if someone got handed a hundred dollars, he was just "Cool" and moved on to use it to his advantage.

In his new lore he's not only not a genius alchemist with a cruel nature, but his transformation gives him a struggle between his former human methodology and his new bestial savagery. That's just boring! It makes him into the stereotypical tormented werewolf who can't do anything against his transformation.


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Senial

Senior Member

09-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask the Herald View Post
The point that was being made in the post you quoted was that Warwick didn't have any issues with his transformation. It's like if someone got handed a hundred dollars, he was just "Cool" and moved on to use it to his advantage.

In his new lore he's not only not a genius alchemist with a cruel nature, but his transformation gives him a struggle between his former human methodology and his new bestial savagery. That's just boring! It makes him into the stereotypical tormented werewolf who can't do anything against his transformation.

Not exactly. He is all for the savagery, the problem is he loses the ability to plan and think ahead. He loses all intelligence and will eventually become a being without purpose which is why he wants the blood.