Creative Design AMA - Soraka and Warwick

First Riot Post
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Aliete

Senior Member

09-18-2012

I just want to say I love Runaan! Thank you so much for this, Soraka is my favorite character. But what I love even more is the fact that your answering lore based questions for fans despite how much smaller we are compared to those who don't really care about the lore, thank you so much <3

I have a question though if you don't mind =P So Soraka's grove....where is that? Is that in the gardens in Ionia? Or is it near it? And what does Soraka think of Ahri?


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Swanhaven

Senior Member

09-18-2012

I think I finally pinpointed what bugs me about this story. It's that the stars essentially screw Soraka over for no good reason.

Soraka in her innocence sees a person in trouble and tries to console them. Said person presents themselves to her as a grieving, lonely person and she befriends them. Soraka has no reason to mistrust him or even to suspect anything is wrong. Seeing her friend beset by what she perceives as 'bad' people, she tries first healing him, and only when she realizes that just healing him isn't working does she use her power to scare the bandits off. She doesn't even hit them hard enough to HURT them, just scare them away. And for this, the stars cut her off? That doesn't make any sense. She came to what she did out of totally benevolent reasons.

The stars are essentially total dicks. They give her a general feeling of 'don't do it', but what reason does she have to NOT do it? In her mind, she's not doing anything really wrong-- she's helping someone. What crime did Soraka commit to warrant being cut off and cast out into the mortal world? Compassion? She did in that situation what any good person would do-- in fact, you could argue she went easy on them. There is no way you can look at this situation that makes what happened to Soraka anything less than ridiculously arbitrary and totally unjust.

Now, if Soraka had killed the bandits in a fit of sudden righteous anger at seeing them wounding her friend over and over while she tried to heal him THEN cutting Soraka off and chucking her into the mortal realm would make more sense, and it would fit more into the mold of 'she committed a terrible transgression, no matter how good her motives were'. You would also have an interesting backround for her deep respect and love for all living things. You eliminate the 'failure' stigma from her making the mistake, because she did it for all the right reasons. It's not Soraka snapping and cursing a guy into a more powerful form totally by mistake, it's Soraka committing a 'sin' for someone she considers a helpless friend.

The way it is now it's just kind of ridiculous.


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Ionian StarChild

Senior Member

09-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylara View Post
I really love stories, and I am very interested in the lore for League of Legends. However, I think this lore needs to be tinkered with before it is final because of some unfortunate implications and problems.

First of all, generally, this lore means that Warwick's grand master plan was to grab a dead Ionian lady (or kill a live Ionian, which is more likely), haul her corpse back to Soraka, and put on a show about how sad he is and how much he wants to avenge her death. He doesn't do this just once, no. He comes back for several days and is so darn charming about it that Soraka essentially falls in love with him. Warwick might as well have had a mustache to twirl.

The next step of his master plan is to pretend that he's so weak that a group of random men can nearly kill him. They probably DO almost kill him, because Soraka is queen of healing and W+R isn't doing anything, so she starcalls his attackers into ... running away. This starcall is so momentous that it causes her to lose her divinity, and all it did to the minions was make them flee in terror. This same starcall ("she called once more on the power of the stars") is going to curse Warwick's flesh permanently.

This is a bad plan. This is a dumb plan. Is Warwick dumb? Because that's what I'm getting from this.

As for reading the two lores together, I cannot conclude that Soraka is anything other than dumb herself. In Warwick's lore, it states that:


This implies that Soraka did something to discover his ploy. She didn't, though. She literally did not have a clue until after he stabbed her. Our poor derpy unicorn was so blinded by love that Charming Conartist Warwick was able to pull one over on her all the way up until he stabbed her. How is that "discover[ing] his ploy"? Is it "discovering" the evil plan if you walk all the way into it and don't realize it until the cage falls on top of you? There is nothing in Soraka's lore to her credit, only reaction and not thinking.

As for Warwick, he's so smooth and charming as this woebegone widower that he can pull this entire plan off, "survive" the attack, ACTUALLY SUCCEED IN STABBING HER after she has already lost her immortality, but he nevertheless fails to gather the necessary blood and then he gets horrifically injured by Starcall, which again had just made some people run away. I'm assuming she had max CDR and it stacked in a big darn hurry.

Essentially, the combination of these two lores make Soraka a goddess that loses everything for love but doesn't have the brains to figure anything out until he actually stabs her. Warwick is less a scientist, less an evil experimenter, and more a conartist that has the patience for a ridiculously convoluted ploy but not enough to figure out a better way of killing her than by stabbing her with a regular knife. Is he a scientist or not? Right now, he's a B-movie villain that couldn't even get her blood after it spilled, presumably, over the hand that stabbed her. That stabbing part really has to go, there's just no good way of reasoning that he failed to get her blood even after cutting her.

Further, there are some weird problems with this timeline. Apparently, it's after she "sear[s] his flesh and curs[es] his cruelty" that he runs away "howling" and THEN returns to Singed and drinks the wolf potion. The howling is misleading, as it implies that Soraka has already turned him into a wolf when at most she has revealed him to be a beast. At best, this is mixing metaphors and it's confusing since he really will turn into a wolf right after this.

Finally, I have no clue why derping into a conman's trap and surviving a stab wound after falling in love with an evil scientist empowers Soraka. Saying Soraka is empowered after this does not make it so. She has new purpose, but where did this purpose come from? She wanted to heal people before, too. She defeated Warwick, but that situation was humiliating for her and she was tricked all the way to the end. My guess is that you intend empowerment to come from the fact that she can injure others without restriction and/or because she is free from the grove, but the connection is not clear enough and it emphasizes the touchy-feely aspects of Soraka in this lore - all about love and healing, and nothing of the goddess she once was.

Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to post on the forums about this with the actual Lore creators. I hope the criticism is constructive and that you don't take offense; I'm excited by lore revamps and lore in general.
Very detailed post and I agree completely with every point made.


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YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

09-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaoLong View Post
On a more serious note, how would Soraka react if confronted with a not evil, but largely destructive force like Cho'Gath or Kha'Zix? Does she seriously think she could reason with them or turn them away from their path? I doubt Void monsters even have a philosophy to be turned from, I bet they're just hungry most of the time.
i have never really bought the notion of an intelligent creature acting more as a force of nature, and thus falling outside of morality labels such as "good" and "evil"

league has yet to introduce a void champion that does not appear to be a sentient creature, therefore calling a figure like cho'gath a "destructive force" instead of an evil being in the traditional sense strikes me as strange

kog'maw seems like a very young member of whatever type of creature he is supposed to be and thus could arguably be a better candidate for this question. (we don't know much of Kha'Zix yet so i don't have an opinion on how to think of him)

whenever fantasy tries to suggest that a clearly sentient and thinking being falls outside of morality somehow (dark gods and what have you) i tend to not buy the argument, how can something be more of a force if it has the ability to reason?


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

09-18-2012

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Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
The amount of blood he needs can't really be collected on the Fields of Justice, and yes, Singed does need to prepare it.
How big is this potion? 5 gallons?


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Eletale

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Senior Member

09-18-2012

I completely forgot Udyr, another guy who is at the brink of losing himself to his beast side. Now that Warwick is going to be losing more and more of his humanity until he kills Soraka, don't you think he'd consider looking at how Udyr keeps his feral instincs in check?


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SFHFWill

Senior Member

09-18-2012

Ok Srsly

How did Singed know what Soraka blood would do?


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Hunter Zolomon

Member

09-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoshioPeePee View Post
i have never really bought the notion of an intelligent creature acting more as a force of nature, and thus falling outside of morality labels such as "good" and "evil"

league has yet to introduce a void champion that does not appear to be a sentient creature, therefore calling a figure like cho'gath a "destructive force" instead of an evil being in the traditional sense strikes me as strange

kog'maw seems like a very young member of whatever type of creature he is supposed to be and thus could arguably be a better candidate for this question. (we don't know much of Kha'Zix yet so i don't have an opinion on how to think of him)

whenever fantasy tries to suggest that a clearly sentient and thinking being falls outside of morality somehow (dark gods and what have you) i tend to not buy the argument, how can something be more of a force if it has the ability to reason?
Cho is stated to be extremely intelligent, however.


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Topagae

Junior Member

09-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanhaven View Post
I think I finally pinpointed what bugs me about this story. It's that the stars essentially screw Soraka over for no good reason.

Soraka in her innocence sees a person in trouble and tries to console them. Said person presents themselves to her as a grieving, lonely person and she befriends them. Soraka has no reason to mistrust him or even to suspect anything is wrong. Seeing her friend beset by what she perceives as 'bad' people, she tries first healing him, and only when she realizes that just healing him isn't working does she use her power to scare the bandits off. She doesn't even hit them hard enough to HURT them, just scare them away. And for this, the stars cut her off? That doesn't make any sense. She came to what she did out of totally benevolent reasons.

The stars are essentially total dicks. They give her a general feeling of 'don't do it', but what reason does she have to NOT do it? In her mind, she's not doing anything really wrong-- she's helping someone. What crime did Soraka commit to warrant being cut off and cast out into the mortal world? Compassion? She did in that situation what any good person would do-- in fact, you could argue she went easy on them. There is no way you can look at this situation that makes what happened to Soraka anything less than ridiculously arbitrary and totally unjust.

Now, if Soraka had killed the bandits in a fit of sudden righteous anger at seeing them wounding her friend over and over while she tried to heal him THEN cutting Soraka off and chucking her into the mortal realm would make more sense, and it would fit more into the mold of 'she committed a terrible transgression, no matter how good her motives were'. You would also have an interesting backround for her deep respect and love for all living things. You eliminate the 'failure' stigma from her making the mistake, because she did it for all the right reasons. It's not Soraka snapping and cursing a guy into a more powerful form totally by mistake, it's Soraka committing a 'sin' for someone she considers a helpless friend.

The way it is now it's just kind of ridiculous.
Right on the money. Very saddened why I didn't see why this was a POOR fairy-tale. This story is mimicking myths and fairy tales, but in GOOD myths there is a REASON why the heroine makes her choice. The powers TELL the heroine it's wrong and she KNOWS it's wrong.

It's more powerful because the hero has a choice. And they make it, and they live with it. In this story, Soraka is a child who makes a mistake, a mistake that honestly she had no real way of knowing. She doesn't know what's she's doing. It's somewhat admirable she lives with and strives to do better afterward. But in this story she's not a heroine who made a tough choice to do something she believes is right for some reason. She's a kid who gets a slap on the wrist and she doesn't know why. Then she deals with it, kinda.


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Vuther

Senior Member

09-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFHFWill View Post
Ok Srsly

How did Singed know what Soraka blood would do?
Science.

I mean Hextech.