Rebellion?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dreamspitter

Recruiter

01-24-2013

Okay, we've established Noxus as the "Empire".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheEmpire

That's fine, but even if the champions of Noxus are hardened, sadistic killers .....ordinary people and most common soldiers are not -even if they have their vices (enjoying gladiator matches or giving human sacrifice to their gods like some ancient civilizations) or have the minimal mild patriotism you'd expect, they arent all right debags you know?

That said Riven is an example of a Noxian with a conscience.

Which brings me to my question. In a model society, the dissenters would be seen as "the bad guys". So within Noxus, WHO is the most wanted man/woman of ALL time?

If there is an Empire...........there simply MUST be rebel scum.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouRebelScum

Who is The Rebel in the Rune Terra universe?

I am wondering if there is (if I've missed it) or if there's not- if people would like to see a character that while proudly Noxian, still opposes the Noxian state and Swain in a sort of V for Vendetta kind of fashion. They are a champion (in their eyes) not of the Noxus that is, but the Noxus that should be.

They would be a character that means well, but isnt exactly running around going "FOR GRAET JUSTIZ!!!!!". While they might be admired in ways by Demacia....they are are still a flawed person, and dont really fall into the self righteous "Knight Templar" characterization.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../KnightTemplar


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cerubois

Senior Member

01-24-2013

I don't think Noxus is so simple as to have just two sides.

First, you have the High Command which rules over the city officially, who are in command after the overthrowing of the Noxian monarchy. The end result was more personal freedom and the ability to progress regardless of standing.

Now the High Command is under the rule of Swain, and is effectively a pawn of the Black Rose, the faction that wishes to return Noxus to the old ways of elitism, but not necessarily monarchy.

Then you have the Gray Order, Annie's people, who left Noxus due to disputes with the High Command. They are the magicians and sorcerers who felt out of place in the new Noxus. It's unknown whether they would wish to return if the city-state became a better place for them again.

Finally, you have people like Riven who feel that Noxus is not quite right, and must be returned to the basics it was built upon. The politics have gone too far, and the ideals have been skewed. These are the ones who would prefer sheer might (and/or effort) over any other method.

You effectively have four entities in Noxus. The politicians, the elitists, the sorcerers, and the warriors. They all have different views of how Noxus should be, and any one of them could be right or wrong. Sometimes this isn't always clear when examining Noxus, and it tends to be painted as entirely evil. But there is a lot of variety of views within Noxus, even if on a whole it's a rather dark place.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Birdy51

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Indeed, as Cerubois said, Noxus is a very, very stratified nation. I would even say that there are more splitting lines than just those mentioned, but perhaps I'll have time to elaborate later.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Montesque64

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Now, a "stratified" society usually indicates one in which advancement is very difficult, if not impossible, and social statuses are very distinct from one another. Noxus is the opposite of all of that, to which Demacia is the exemplar.

I think, Birdy, you might have meant that it is a very divided nation, which I would definitely agree with, because their focus on individual power leads to a state of each individual effectively being his or her own faction, looking out primarily for their own interests. Now, the city state may have a grand general or leader, but that's just another way of saying the currently most powerful individual, subject to change whenever another, better/smarter/more charismatic person wrests control away from them via kidnapping, death, etc.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Well said, as always, Cerubois.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Birdy51

Senior Member

01-24-2013

By stratified, I did mean that Noxus is very divided at the moment Montesque, although arguements can be made to say why it can be difficult to advance in Noxus. Still, I have other speculations to make right now!

As Cerebois said, there is the High Command under Swain. However, I would go further to say that not everyone in the High Command agrees with Swain at the helm. I'll call these people Loyalists, or those who were loyal to Boram Darkwill and his son. Given the chance, I don't doubt that they would attempt to avenge his honor. Ex-soldiers like Sion and Urgot could be apart of this faction if they have any lingering love for the old leader, but I would think that they have transitioned leadership by now.

Then there is the matter of the third canidate for leadership who mysteriously disappeared. The (late?) General Du Couteau, the father of Katarina and Cassiopeia. It's suggested by both Talon's and Cassiopeia's lore, that Swain and LeBlanc may have been behind his disapearence. If all the clues are put together and Swain is revealed as the culprit, hell shall hath no fury like a woman's scorn. Those who served under our good general may also lend their support, as well as those indebted to the family, such a Talon and possibly Sion.

Then there is Darius, who is a fairly big wild card. We don't know much about him, but we do know that he will stop at nothing to take down any man or woman who impedes his vision of Noxus. It's unknown what path he will take, although he is cited as loyal to Swain. Yet, if something were to shake that confidence to the core, Swain will have another powerful enemy to deal with. However, due to his roots, I have a feeling that he would secure the trust of the military, as well as the populace. Darius is the picturesque Noxian, born to the slums, but became one of the strongest leaders in Noxian history. There is certainly an awe factor attatched here.

Finally, Swain himself forms the last faction that is apart of the High Command. As Grand General, Swain controls the main forces of Noxus and demands respect of his people. Any outward attack against him is an attack against Noxus. Therefore, any enemies he does have would be wise to be quiet, lest they be killed for their folly. Then, considering his mental abilities, he's more than capable of defending himself against any staged coup. Simply put, Swain is more than capable to take on whatever domestic threats that might arise from the High Command.

That's it for the High Command. But there are other players in this game as well. Such as Leblanc

LeBlanc of course leads the Black Rose, who are assumed to be loyal only to her commands. Swain is her partner, but I don't believe he was always a member of the Black Rose. I could be wrong. Regardless, they wish to return Noxus to what they perceive as normal.

Riven makes her own class of disillusioned Noxian youth both still at home and abroad. They realize that Noxus is no longer the country that they were taught about, and they will fight to change it. Though they are unlikely to be many, she will gladly lend a voice to those who don't dare to speak up for fear of their own lives.

The Gray Order is just as Cerebois said. Led by Gregori Hasturi and his wife Amoline, we don't know what their political ambitions might be. They are another wild card.

It's also important to mention that Noxus has their own summoners as well. We know little of their ambitions, but they do represent both Noxus and the League. Who knows what their intentions might be if war breaks out. Knowing them, they'll probably just freeze the whole city and make it into a Field of Justice!

Anyone else, such as the poor in the slums, the merchants, minor nobility have very little influence on what might happen next. They don't really have a discernable faction.

So... In short, the High Command itself can be counted as four factions, while another four factions exist outside of it. This brings the grand total to eight factions that I can discern.

Noxian politics as usual I suppose!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheRelicOfOwls

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerubois View Post
I don't think Noxus is so simple as to have just two sides.

First, you have the High Command which rules over the city officially, who are in command after the overthrowing of the Noxian monarchy. The end result was more personal freedom and the ability to progress regardless of standing.

Now the High Command is under the rule of Swain, and is effectively a pawn of the Black Rose, the faction that wishes to return Noxus to the old ways of elitism, but not necessarily monarchy.

Then you have the Gray Order, Annie's people, who left Noxus due to disputes with the High Command. They are the magicians and sorcerers who felt out of place in the new Noxus. It's unknown whether they would wish to return if the city-state became a better place for them again.

Finally, you have people like Riven who feel that Noxus is not quite right, and must be returned to the basics it was built upon. The politics have gone too far, and the ideals have been skewed. These are the ones who would prefer sheer might (and/or effort) over any other method.

You effectively have four entities in Noxus. The politicians, the elitists, the sorcerers, and the warriors. They all have different views of how Noxus should be, and any one of them could be right or wrong. Sometimes this isn't always clear when examining Noxus, and it tends to be painted as entirely evil. But there is a lot of variety of views within Noxus, even if on a whole it's a rather dark place.

beautifully said.

Personally I would love to see more characters of each "faction", especially another from the grey order, it seems like they would offer a very unique type of magic, and somebody else representing the black rose would be cool as hell too.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SUPERSEYMOUR

Senior Member

01-24-2013

a large war/distraction could lead to a very bad time in Runeterra, the league could lose control of some champions (Brand/Cho/Nocturne escaping, Xerath absorbing the Nexuses and being over 9000, something along those lines) and the whole situation would be crazy.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

StarkRavenMad

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Noxian history is rich in usurping and overthrow.

The BlackRose, the true strength behind the throne, didn't even put up a fight as Boram Darkwill came in. They knew that they would do what they do best: Wait in the shadows, and strengthen their resolve. Not much is known about their agenda, outside of keeping strength in Noxus, their idea being different from the brick headed "Bang things till dead" tactic.

The High Command, currently, is full of corruption. Not Swain, per say, but those that believe wealth is power, the very people that Darius had beheaded, to make the point that a true Noxus doesn't lean upon the wealth to rule the poor.

Swain is a middle ground between both the High Command and the Black Rose, though I don't know if he prefers one way, or the other. He despises Darkwill for ruining his home. While Noxus did become a super power, under Darkwill, recent events lead to a waste of resources, horrible relations with neighboring city states, and a lack of unity in Noxus, itself (Riven).

Swain holds the conniving genius of the Black Rose, but the power of the High Command. He could very well be looking for a balance, so as to unite Noxus, truly.

"A United Noxus would rule the world, and deserve to"-Darius.

Leblanc and Swain, while aligned, do not trust each other. While there is a hint of romance, the reason they will not betray each other is because both need the other, and both know the other has a plan up their sleeve.

Riven supported the Ionian war (Which most forget), but she didn't support that which took place. She found it to be a crumbling in Noxian moral. Darkwill, in her eyes, turned his back on True strength, and relied upon killing not only Ionians, but his own people, for a victory.

General Du Couteau has a connection with the Black Rose, obviously, and while Leblanc wished for him dead, Swain found him useful, and even deemed him an honorable man. On a board full of pawns, you don't rid yourself of your only rook, if you will.

So, we must separate Each Champion with their OWN belief in Noxus.

Swain: Unity, through strength and secrets.

Leblanc: Heritage and History.

Darius: True Strength.

These, though differing, create a Trinity for the United Noxus. Unrivaled force, Secrecy and conniving, and unfathomable genius.

Katarina and Cass, however, focus most of their attentions on their father. Du Couteau trusted Swain enough to visit him, even amongst Leblanc, so we can exactly say that Swain has made him "Disappear" for a BAD reason. Yes, it put Swain ahead, in his promotion, but again, pawns and rooks.

Cassi: She shows much more love for her father than Katarina has, in the past. Cass was a daughter, where as, to Marcus Du Couteau, Katarina was also a warrior.

Talon, of course, was the bring in, and a sign of what Noxus can breed. Even in the slums, the poor grow in power. Talon reminds me, a lot, of Swain.

Both were nothing, before they began to steadily rise in influence and power.

So, we have two sections that Noxus is truly divided into.

Pre-Darkwill Noxus: Leblanc, Swain, (maybe Darius, and some could make the argument for Riven).

Post-Darkwill Noxus: Most of Zaun, honestly. Think about it. They love money. MAYBE Katarina and Talon.

There are too many smokes and mirrors for us to be able to truly decide how Noxus's politics are going.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cerubois

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkRavenMad View Post
Riven supported the Ionian war (Which most forget), but she didn't support that which took place. She found it to be a crumbling in Noxian moral. Darkwill, in her eyes, turned his back on True strength, and relied upon killing not only Ionians, but his own people, for a victory.
It's hard to say how Riven felt about the war from the beginning. The only pieces we have info are "Soon after, Riven was deployed to Ionia as part of the Noxian invasion" from her bio and the beginning of her Judgement, which might imply she wasn't impressed with the High Command's predictions from the start.