Mutiny the Pirate King

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Chaz5

Senior Member

10-12-2012

you should really see if you can get the image of the champ on the thread itself, very well done btw.


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3mptylord

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Thank you. Also, I could upload the image... but the formatting on this forum makes the presentation look terrible and I'm OCD about that sort of stuff.


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Fierce Summoner

Senior Member

10-13-2012

isn't Gangplank a pirate???


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3mptylord

Senior Member

10-21-2012

So?

We have three ninjas.


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Epsilaun

Senior Member

10-24-2012

Creative, well thought, and more of what ppl should be thinking of when coming up with champ concepts (saw one pre khazix that was like udyr on crack)

however

your add selection of AD vs AP might lead one to be too favored rather than say, building what your team needs

Also i think his W (tho based on his passive which limits it) is probably just TOO strong with that many effects, i would sugest prioratizing it for defense or offense rather than providing for both, so just healing (and perhapse a brief MS buff ala draven or something) or just offence. just too much going on, and perhaps give it a lower baseline whatever, with upped scaling per skelly up (reducing per additional one like zyra plant stacking)

Along similar lines of simplifying, id take the wall off the e, seems lil gimicky and he already has quite a bit going for him, otherwise i like RF skellys and silence.

so conceptually, thats about all i would say to alter, also the numbers on his heal would probably have to come way down, 500+125% of your AP is A HUGE HEAL if your going a large ammount of AP. i mean, hecarim gets a flat like 180 cap on all minion heals at max rank. as for rest of numbers i dont see problem/ would be something that needs testing.

so yea, as much as i seem to be bashing you, all in all, i like the concept, and you have made a solid idea for a champ through and through, good lore ideas, fully thought out all details, i would (baring balance checks and whatnot) approve this champ if there were a vote for a forum champ to directly be a new champ.


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3mptylord

Senior Member

10-25-2012

The mixed AD/AP ratios are not unusual. Hecarim's heal and ultimate scale with AP; same with Gangplank; Skarner is almost all AP scaling; etc. Utility scales with AP -> you're suppose to ignore those scalings unless you're going for a gimmicky AP build (like the odd AP Tristana). It also rewards Sheen, Gunblade, Brilliance, Baron Nashor, an ally with Will of the Ancients, supports that give AP, etc.

W) I suppose I could dial down the damage to something less execution-y, just flat damage. But if Yorick's Decaying Ghoul didn't do damage when it exploded onto the field, it just wouldn't feel right!

E) The wall on E was someone else's idea that I didn't object to. I'll await further feedback before hastily removing it. It was tacked on though, so it may feel a little unnecessary.

I actually based the heal on Gangplank's numbers, but I'm open to suggestions. Given that Mutiny requires a pseudo-stack system, similar to Syndra, I wanted to reward managing to get a lot of them out. MaybeI went too far. ^_^


And thank you.


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Epsilaun

Senior Member

10-25-2012

yea but do you EVER see a AP Gangplank? i havnt, and skarner does way better as tank/AD than AP, shyv has 2 on AP scaling no one does AP shyv or even hybrid. And his healing technically does not scale off AP, hec's healing scales off damage done while using his W, so even AD increases the healing as long as you are hitting a champion, but minion heals are still capped WAY low, his numbers allow for him (assuming he kills in rapid succession to get multiple skellys up) a maxed BASE of 500 which is huge, higher than EITHER of sorakas heal or tryndamere (pre ap scaling of course, and yes, i know sorakas heals do other stuff/heal multiple on ulti but thats not the point, and then again his heal has a higher scaling than EITHER of those heals if you have max minon stacks) so you get him say, 400 AP cause your building tanky and not straight AP your talking a nearly 1k heal if he can so much as kill 3 minions with 1 spell (like his scream) or does something weird like tiamat, yes its a fairly significant CD, but really, can you imagine him having a 1k heal without even going straight AP? that is just too high of a number.

also on topic of mixed AD vs AP ratios yea there are some where its acceptable, but there are many that you "could" that you never should, varus, irelia , corki (more viable, but really who ever does), hecarim, all have the ratios but would be horrible horrible APs compared to their normal tank or AD. just cause riot puts it there does not mean it should ever be used.....ever.

Im just saying that the way it looks AP tanky will be highly favored over the other simply cause not only will he have huge healing if they are in a lane with minions for him to cleave a few easy kills with his shout, but his ulti will do huge damage+ be great in team fights esspecially comboed with another AOE ultimate, like amumu or fiddle. just seems like you might need to change numbers up if you really want it to be a personal preference champ, like yi, he can successfully be played both even tho he technically has 0 abilities that scale off AD (tho to be fair to your numbers i think AP yi heals are way too powerful...even if he does have to stand there channeling) since altho skellys scale off it they are not a relyable source, running through jungle get ganked? unlike yoric he can just pull a skelly out as is and is left without his heal, which makes him a lil situational. like i said i dont know all the details and im not trying to scrap him, just for someone like this to work he needs a little more consistency and number changes but im still in favor, im just seeing the problems that come to my mind


another idea that comes to mind for his W is maybe put it at a flat ammount but make it SUMMON skellys, reduce the healing (can even leave all the effects you have on it maybe, AP scaling of DoT/heal (tho reduce the heal) have no scaling per skelly but summon 1 or 2 skellys on cast, that way it has even greater use for AD which is the spec i see that seems lacking, doesnt lock him out of his heal with no skellys, just needs something cause the way things are blowing even the short CD on his Q doesnt seem quite enticing enough for an AD over AP but, yea, keep workin, id love to see this, esspecially a GP and him combo would be fun (ultis together would be strong)

again, sorry if i seem like im bashing, im not trying but i get very opinionated and iv also seen a LOT of just absurdly over powered champ concepts (like imagine champ that flip flops between an AOE udyr stun, and AOE jax, stacking 40% penetration, armor and MR i think, with passive AS boost, and upwards of 100 HP per second passive regen with free MR, it was rediculous) the rest of the concepts on the champ im fully behind, its mostly scaling, and the w that worry me about you acheiving the choice of role champ you desire. and im just giving my 2 cents on what might make that work, and i could be totally wrong


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3mptylord

Senior Member

10-25-2012

25th October Patch Notes (full patch history can be found at the link at the top of the first post)

  • Cull To Arms
    • Now heals for a base amount of health, 40 / 90 / 140 / 190 / 240 (+100% AP) increased from nothing.
    • Health and mana per skeleton reduced to 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 from 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 (+50% AP)
    • The healing per skeleton is no longer capped, due to the number changes being less open to abuse.

(For reference, Gangplank heals for 360 (+100% AP) at maximum level. Mutiny is on-par if he consumes 2 skeletons, while being rewarded for having more without it being abusive).

I accept that the heal may have been a tad abusive. Changes made: I don't see him being any more viable as an AP than Gangplank, Hecarim or Skarner. But at the same time, even if he is viable as an AP Tank, so what? He'd be similar to Nautilus, except with the heal instead of a stupidly powerful shield. That being said, I think Mutiny's CC is too conditional for him to work like Alistar, Amumu or Nautilus... yes, his ultimate is the perfect CC-tank skill, but his only other CC is a directional-silence. Other AP Tanks all provide constant CC. Trying to think of examples of Mutiny's niche is actually proving hard... there aren't any AD AOE initiators. Ummm, AD Malphite. There, found one. ^_^


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Aardvark

Junior Member

10-25-2012

Great concept and a thorough explanation to go with it. Props to you for a job well done.


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3mptylord

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Cheers.