No way to counter build health if you are AP

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Rindin14

Member

11-03-2012

well about the whole mundo thing he might not technically be a tank, but he definitely is extremely tanky

and I'm not talking about late game, im talking about the adc and ap building health in early and mid game, and me not being able to burst them in teamfights


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Toarupettanko

Member

11-03-2012

cant build DFG anymore since its recent nerf...so his arguement is quite valid now


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsmodeanWoT View Post
cant build DFG anymore since its recent nerf...so his arguement is quite valid now
Why not? Did the item suddenly cost a lot more? Did they make it not AP?

Or are you too much of a meta sheep obsessed with the loss of CDR to simply accommodate for that by changing your build?


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Why not? Did the item suddenly cost a lot more? Did they make it not AP?

Or are you too much of a meta sheep obsessed with the loss of CDR to simply accommodate for that by changing your build?
To be fair, it went from being a powerful all-purpose item to a reliable no-wasted-stats item to a situational-only item.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
To be fair, it went from being a powerful all-purpose item to a reliable no-wasted-stats item to a situational-only item.
While this is true, it's ALSO true that you still change your build to the situation if you're a good player.

Thus, situational status of an item doesn't matter; if the item suits the situation, use it.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
While this is true, it's ALSO true that you still change your build to the situation if you're a good player.

Thus, situational status of an item doesn't matter; if the item suits the situation, use it.
It should also be noted that they nerfed the base damage of the Active by a full 10% HP, while only increasing the AP Ratio by 1% HP per 100 AP, Requiring a full 1000 AP built just to get back to the original base damage. That is fairly drastic when you consider that it takes a full Glass Cannon build in order to reach that much AP. In fact, I don't believe there are is any way to build that much AP in the first place. Most I have gotten is around 700. The viability of Deathfire Grasp is hurt by the fact that it only does two of the things that it used to, and of those two things, one of them is not nearly as good as it once was.


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JadeVanity

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Member

11-04-2012

AGREED. mages are already super underpowered.


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Pethrax

Senior Member

11-04-2012

Okay,

1. Mundo is a health-tank bruiser. There are 2 types of tanks- Health, and Resistance. Shen is another health tank. So is AD Sion. Leona and Taric are examples of Resistance Tanks, they build AR and MR and win as a tank, because nothing hurts them!

2. DFG is a nice item, and with it's current nerf, it is a lot less viable against a team with more than 1 bruiser, ie Darius going top with a jungle Maokai and a support Jarvan.

Your AP caster will now invariably fail, since any gank made against your team is almost bound to succeed, and late game, the APC is left with 2 targets- the AP carry they've been dueling up until then, and the ADC. Chances are, the enemy AP carry is more fed since their jungler could gank without pause, due to the innate tankiness of Maokai, thereby leaving only the ADC to focus. Good job, you can kill 1 person, then you are worthless!

Now granted, this is just one of many scenarios, but I really don't see how teamwork can help, because if Maokai, or any good initiating jungler, camps mid, you as the AP carry are effectively shut down, leaving all the farm to the enemy.

Honestly, BFT is a great item, but only on APC's that have low cooldown pokes. Heck, if brought to classic, I can see how easily it will be abused. Ezreal for example, would be a humongous menace. His Q would be a diabolical poke, and if he got Madred's as well, GG, he can burn through health like a forest fire through a paper factory.

I for one, would like to see some way to make APC's more viable late game, such as an item that deals a percent of life, or something that can change the damage from magic to physical. Then, if the enemy stacks MR, woops, no AR, now mage is viable again.

Also, Elise does percent damage now.


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JustMyBassCannon

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11-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pethrax View Post
Honestly, BFT is a great item, but only on APC's that have low cooldown pokes. Heck, if brought to classic, I can see how easily it will be abused. Ezreal for example, would be a humongous menace. His Q would be a diabolical poke, and if he got Madred's as well, GG, he can burn through health like a forest fire through a paper factory.
It wouldn't apply to his Q, iirc, because his Q is treated as an auto attack; it applies on-hit effects from auto attacks, so for example, Mallet/Trinity will proc, but not Rylai's.

However, BFT is insanely good on champions with DoTs, and pretty good on huge AoEs; Brand, Mordekaiser, Rumble and Swain would become juggernauts of death and destruction to everyone in their path. Zyra, Ziggs, Lux and Xerath would become more abusive of their AoE and range. And I really don't like the thought of Karthus in SR with BFT.


Honestly, the best suggestion I've seen to improve the situation is to make DFG work off %HP instead of %CHP, so you can toss it in whenever and still have a useful addition to your burst.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
While this is true, it's ALSO true that you still change your build to the situation if you're a good player.

Thus, situational status of an item doesn't matter; if the item suits the situation, use it.
That situation only occurs well beyond the point you needed DFG for.

When the enemy has built so much health and so little MR that you can do a sizeable amount of damage with DFG. If they have a decent chunk of MR? The active damage will be ineffective, and your total burst will only be a little higher than if you had spent that gold on a better AP item, while being less useful against the rest of the enemy team. The item isn't passively increasing your damage per second or your utility, because it lost its CDR. It gives a minor amount of AP, increasing your burst by a small chunk, and then a 200 damage nuke every 60 seconds.