Duo Top Lane vs Meta Laning, and "Assassins" in Normal Games

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

OxideAOTL

Member

09-14-2012

The xp "advantage" you're supposed to have when soloing a lane against two people isn't good enough. Two people can easily zone you out and prevent you from farming, thus getting gold, and yet manage to be only very slightly behind you in levels - literally levelling up a few seconds after you do.

I understand why they play the meta in ranked, and in tournaments, because it works. But things don't work the same way in normal games clearly.

I can play Jarvan, Nunu or Darius as a solo top lane, and I get **** on completely when the other team don't jungle.

Now you would think that my teams jungle would help, but no. Even if the jungle is a good player and knows what he/she is doing, they still can't take on 2 people by themselves. By the time the jungle would come to gank, I'd be poked back, have no farm, and low on health, so jumping into the fray would just give them two kills.

---

Apart from the problem with top laning and jungle reliance, I have another problem.

Why would anyone play an "Assassin" that doesn't actually pay off well, if played at a high standard? For example, Shaco is relatively difficult, in comparison to other assassins, ie Diana and Akali, however, Diana and Akali can build tankier, and do more damage, and much, much more easily chase down a victim.

I can't name a champion that wouldn't get nuked down from near full health to 0 in a few seconds by anyone who knows the "rotation" for an Akali once they hit level 6 and have their cooldowns off.

Why the hell is this game so imbalanced?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IonCannonKarthus

Senior Member

09-14-2012

I love it when people call me and my friends noobs in normal games for taking a jungler. Then we proceed to destroy their top tower by 6-10 minutes in and roam other lanes pushing them.

Some times, having 2v1 top lane is just better overall. Unless of course the enemy toplaner is someone who can survive and harass *cough*teemo*cough*


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

rvzillmer

Senior Member

09-14-2012

1-1-1-2 comp with good jungle > 2-1-2 comp > 1-1-1-2 comp with newbie jungle.

If you enemy has a Jungler who knows what they are doing you will get WRECKED if you don't play accordingly. They will have their jungle, YOUR jungle and free roam gank whatever lane they want. You might as well surrender at 20, because they will have at least 4 levels on you plus items.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

OxideAOTL

Member

09-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvzillmer View Post
1-1-1-2 comp with good jungle > 2-1-2 comp > 1-1-1-2 comp with newbie jungle.

If you enemy has a Jungler who knows what they are doing you will get WRECKED if you don't play accordingly. They will have their jungle, YOUR jungle and free roam gank whatever lane they want. You might as well surrender at 20, because they will have at least 4 levels on you plus items.
Even if I had a good jungler as a solo top vs duo top, I would get completely destroyed. Did you read the OP?
If the jungler has to tend to me the entire game then they can't help bot and mid if they need it.

Duo lanes up top should be punished more than they are.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DarknessCalls1

Senior Member

09-14-2012

Well, to address the original problem (not being able to get gold up top) why not get a Gp5 item? Hell, get a couple. Heart of Gold is a pretty decent item for Darius (which you can build into Randuin's anyway) and you should probably start off with a Phil. Stone anyway.
Now, only some champs are going to be badly shut down by a duo top (like Nasus) where they have trouble even sitting under tower. Champs like Darius are still a pretty big threat up top because he does buttloads of damage even when he's not fed and he can pull people under the turret and wail on them.

All you have to do is butthump tower and YELL at your jungler to help you. If you have a low damage jungler like WW and you're playing a passive top (like Nasus or Malphite) then just let them take the tower early. When they take the tower, there's no point in pushing your lane anymore and they'll usually leave. Let your team know that they're roaming and enjoy the free farm.
I've had to do this several times as Nasus top and it's just what you have to do, just make sure you get Gp5 and make up the farm.

Thing is, your jungler has been helping the other lanes to win and jungling both sides. The other lanes should be better off (in theory) for the help and buffs that your jungler has been able to give and (also in theory) the two that left top are derping somewhere else not getting the EXP/Gold from top anymore (which means they're eaither getting it from another lane or not getting it at all). This means that you can catch up and they'll fall even further behind in levels not to mention the usual benefits from having a jungler.

If top KEEPS pushing after they have top tower, then invite your mid over for a 3-man gank for some easy kills.

Summary: Gp5, play safe (DON'T FEED), let them take tower, win


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

OuityDrood

Senior Member

09-14-2012

If it happens regularly, take a champion with a lot of innate sustain and poke, like Cho'Gath, Olaf, Vladmir, or Rumble.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kreyni

Senior Member

09-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by OxideAOTL View Post
The xp "advantage" you're supposed to have when soloing a lane against two people isn't good enough. Two people can easily zone you out and prevent you from farming, thus getting gold, and yet manage to be only very slightly behind you in levels - literally levelling up a few seconds after you do.

I understand why they play the meta in ranked, and in tournaments, because it works. But things don't work the same way in normal games clearly.

I can play Jarvan, Nunu or Darius as a solo top lane, and I get **** on completely when the other team don't jungle.

Now you would think that my teams jungle would help, but no. Even if the jungle is a good player and knows what he/she is doing, they still can't take on 2 people by themselves. By the time the jungle would come to gank, I'd be poked back, have no farm, and low on health, so jumping into the fray would just give them two kills.
-Learn to farm at turret
-Learn to build GP5
-Learn to freeze a lane
= Learn to 1v2

The results are:
-2 mediocre-ly farmed enemy tops vs a solo top who has decent farm because he knows how to CS at turret
-A fully farmed jungler who has TWO jungles all to himself, and can apply so much global pressure
-Better late-game overall

Why don't they do duo top in Ranked? Duo top is a kill lane, and kill lanes are generally frowned upon in important games because of how hit-and-miss they are. If you freeze the lane at your tower and don't get greedy they can't get kills, and will end up underfarmed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OxideAOTL View Post
Apart from the problem with top laning and jungle reliance, I have another problem.

Why would anyone play an "Assassin" that doesn't actually pay off well, if played at a high standard? For example, Shaco is relatively difficult, in comparison to other assassins, ie Diana and Akali, however, Diana and Akali can build tankier, and do more damage, and much, much more easily chase down a victim.

I can't name a champion that wouldn't get nuked down from near full health to 0 in a few seconds by anyone who knows the "rotation" for an Akali once they hit level 6 and have their cooldowns off.

Why the hell is this game so imbalanced?
Have you ever played an assassin? They're super squishy early-game, which is when they need to get kills and snowball the most. If they don't kill you initially, they're left with a 1000 HP champion that can literally do nothing.

The more health assassins get, the weaker they are. The more damage assassins get, the squishier they are. If they go for health, build Health (Assassins generally do mixed damage) and ignore them. If they build damage, get your teammate to CC them the moment they appear. BAM dead Akali/Fizz/Talon.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jadelink

Senior Member

09-14-2012

If you're in the range where people still think duo top is viable, be sure to select champs who can manage a 1v2 top. Those with range tend to do better, likewise those with an escape. If you cant manage with either of those, try Yorick.

2 top is viable where you either
-dont have decent junglers (so jungling doesnt get you nice ganks and isnt worth it)
-dont have tops who can pick to handle a 1v2


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ammy

Member

09-14-2012

Honestly I like to go as Gangplank into games where I think I might have a duo top vs. me and the possibility of jungler feeding them or not helping me at all. Most of the time I'd rather just be ignored by my jungler and enjoy farming somewhere nice and safe: Under my turret. If you focus on parlaying minions, you're going to get way ahead of both of them in gold and can come back to stomp them later when you're an item up.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Calzonez

Junior Member

09-14-2012

It all just comes down to player skill and experience of the player with his/her champion. You need to know when to go in for last hits, and when to harass. If you are playing a Normal game and you want to play top lane, its best to be safe rather than to be sorry, and go with a champion you're comfortable with and know that if you do have to solo against two other players that you can do so with ease. some examples of these champions are Teemo, Yorick and Gangplank. All of which are easy to farm with and shouldn't have a problem laning against two players.


12