How do you make a good build?

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Gawthyc

Senior Member

09-13-2012

I've been DYING to make builds of my own, and I'm tired of copying other people's builds because even though they're great, they don't give the same sort of satisfaction.
My problem: I don't know how. :/

Masteries have always confused me because while the bonuses seem really small, they still impact the game. The same thing with runes. Like does it matter if I put Mana regen. seals or glyphs? If so, what's the difference? Should I have AP runes on so and so and how many? It's things like that that really confuse me...

My second problem is items. Firstly, I don't understand the stats. For instance, I see AP carries with 500 AP do a crazy amount of damage, but then I see AD carries with only 200 AD and they do just as much. Say what?
Second, I don't know whether or not I should put certain items on certain champs or not. Like I could be reading Annie builds and some people say, "Yeah, Rod of Ages is a great core item to have," but others say, "Nah, don't bother with it." Why is are items like Deathfire Grasp good on one AP champ, but not another? What about situational items because there are soooo many, especially for tanks.

I could still see what other players are doing for ideas, but I'd really like to learn how to make some half-decent builds on my own, so if you can help me, please do.


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XxxLumberJackxxX

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Hey man,
The best way to learn to make your own build is slightly complicated.
(Also AD carries get IE which makes their AD scale better than AP carries)

Learn more champions!

What?
Well...
When you know what types of effects hurt your champion you will know how to counter it by building. Are you against a team comp that has tons of CC and magic damage? You want to build mercury's treads. Do they have lots of armor? Last Whisper and Black Clever on your ADs.

Are Jax and Ezreal swinging 4 times a second? Frozen Heart and Randuins Omen to slow them down.
Karthus' ult slapping you in the face? Quick silver slash.

GL!


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ApathyWolf

Senior Member

09-13-2012

The best way to build a build in my opinion is knowing the items. For example, on this account (1 of 2), I didn't even know brutalizer existed until summoner level 15. That item has armor pen + CDR + ad dmg. Also it is relatively cheap. Just item memorization helps and since a lot of the items you build are based around the enemy team comp and your own, the only thing that remains relatively the same are the masteries. Also, I recommend building armor pen or magic pen over stacking AD/AP unless your champion is like Vlad where their passive helps out in another way. For instance, void staff. Builds AP and Magic pen. Great item.


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Gawthyc

Senior Member

09-13-2012

When you say learn more champs, how does that help me exactly? Like do you mean learn what champs counter the ones I use, be able to play any position on a team, or what? This was very helpful, though, so thanks!


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thepantsparty

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Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaKameleon View Post
When you say learn more champs, how does that help me exactly? Like do you mean learn what champs counter the ones I use, be able to play any position on a team, or what? This was very helpful, though, so thanks!
Learning more champs will help you understand why certain items are good on some champions but not on others.


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Gawthyc

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepantsparty View Post
Learning more champs will help you understand why certain items are good on some champions but not on others.
Oh ok. Right now I don't play too many champs because I try to perfect my playing on the ones I play a lot like Annie, Amumu and Orianna. But, I'll try some others and play some others in multiple ways (Tank Ali, Support Ali, etc.) Thanks!


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Quazifuji

Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaKameleon View Post
My second problem is items. Firstly, I don't understand the stats. For instance, I see AP carries with 500 AP do a crazy amount of damage, but then I see AD carries with only 200 AD and they do just as much. Say what?
I think there are two things going on here.

First, AD tends to come in smaller numbers than AP, but has better scaling values. So a single point of AD costs more but gives more damage than a single point of AP. For example, compare BF Sword to Needlessly Large Rod. Sword gives 45 AD for 1650 gold, while Rod gives 80 AP for 1600 gold. That doesn't mean the Rod is a better deal, it's just that AD comes in smaller numbers. Remember, you AA has an AD scaling of 1 (every point of AD adds one damage to your AA), and abilities that scale with AD often have ratios of 1.0, or sometimes even higher, as well.

On the other hand, most abilities that scale with AP get less than one damage per AP point. An AP scaling ratio of 0.8 or 0.9 is considered excellent, and 1.0 on a mage often ends up being overpowered.

Also, keep in mind that there are other stats besides AD that boost an ADC's damage. In particular, attack speed, crit, and sometimes procs. An ADC with Berzerker's Greaves, an Infinity Edge, and a Phantom Dancer won't always have a huge AD, since their only bonus AD from items is the 80 from the IE, but they've also got a very fast attack speed, a high crit chance, and bonus damage on all their crits.

On the other hand, AP-scaling abilities basically only get damage from AP, Magic Penetration, and that's it.

TL;DR: An ADC will have lower AD than a mage will have AP both because AD comes in smaller numbers (but has better scaling values) and because there is a wider variety of stats ADCs get damage from.


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Gawthyc

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quazifuji View Post
I think there are two things going on here.

First, AD tends to come in smaller numbers than AP, but has better scaling values. So a single point of AD costs more but gives more damage than a single point of AP. For example, compare BF Sword to Needlessly Large Rod. Sword gives 45 AD for 1650 gold, while Rod gives 80 AP for 1600 gold. That doesn't mean the Rod is a better deal, it's just that AD comes in smaller numbers. Remember, you AA has an AD scaling of 1 (every point of AD adds one damage to your AA), and abilities that scale with AD often have ratios of 1.0, or sometimes even higher, as well.

On the other hand, most abilities that scale with AP get less than one damage per AP point. An AP scaling ratio of 0.8 or 0.9 is considered excellent, and 1.0 on a mage often ends up being overpowered.

Also, keep in mind that there are other stats besides AD that boost an ADC's damage. In particular, attack speed, crit, and sometimes procs. An ADC with Berzerker's Greaves, an Infinity Edge, and a Phantom Dancer won't always have a huge AD, since their only bonus AD from items is the 80 from the IE, but they've also got a very fast attack speed, a high crit chance, and bonus damage on all their crits.

On the other hand, AP-scaling abilities basically only get damage from AP, Magic Penetration, and that's it.

TL;DR: An ADC will have lower AD than a mage will have AP both because AD comes in smaller numbers (but has better scaling values) and because there is a wider variety of stats ADCs get damage from.
Ok, perfect! You've answered that question for me. Thanks!
Although, I'm still wondering why even a little bit of extra armor pen. or whatever in runes has a great impact on the game...


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TeknoWizard

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaKameleon View Post
Ok, perfect! You've answered that question for me. Thanks!
Although, I'm still wondering why even a little bit of extra armor pen. or whatever in runes has a great impact on the game...
Well, let's look at it this way. I'm going to use my favorite quints in the world as an example. Movespeed quints! I run these on nearly every bruiser I play. If I play Skarner, with all of my masteries and runes for movespeed, I'm hitting 350 movespeed without even needing boots. To put that in perspective, I move as fast as most AD carries do WITH boots. If I do that with Udyr, and start with boots, I hit 405 movespeed with boots, at level one. That's faster than most champions with T2 boots. I will out run anyone and be able to chase anyone, for the sole reason that I chose masteries and runes to specifically do so. As that is an example, check out the jungle. I'd say this is where runes show their biggest impact.

Oh, and how about this for how the ArmPen actually does help. I think most champions start off with 30-40 armor, (Don't feel like checking, but it seems about right to me), and you're starting out with 15 ArmPen from marks. Well, you're ignoring around half of their starting armor. Which can make a surprising difference.


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Gawthyc

Senior Member

09-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeknoWizard View Post
Well, let's look at it this way. I'm going to use my favorite quints in the world as an example. Movespeed quints! I run these on nearly every bruiser I play. If I play Skarner, with all of my masteries and runes for movespeed, I'm hitting 350 movespeed without even needing boots. To put that in perspective, I move as fast as most AD carries do WITH boots. If I do that with Udyr, and start with boots, I hit 405 movespeed with boots, at level one. That's faster than most champions with T2 boots. I will out run anyone and be able to chase anyone, for the sole reason that I chose masteries and runes to specifically do so. As that is an example, check out the jungle. I'd say this is where runes show their biggest impact.

Oh, and how about this for how the ArmPen actually does help. I think most champions start off with 30-40 armor, (Don't feel like checking, but it seems about right to me), and you're starting out with 15 ArmPen from marks. Well, you're ignoring around half of their starting armor. Which can make a surprising difference.
Alright, so apart from Movement Speed Quints, runes are mainly to give you an extra boost early game, right?


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