@Riot - Letting LoL Mature

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type1Rush

Senior Member

09-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayan Snipe Jock View Post

Firstly, Starcraft 2. One of the most popular E-Sports of all time, and one that League of Legends has only recently overtaken. If you look at the patch history for it, you see stuff doesn't get changed very often. Does that mean that people are not complaining about the strategies and build orders people are discovering? No. Every time a game breaking build has come out you look 2 months down the line and some pro-player has worked out a way to deal with it. Look at the prevalence of the 4-Gate rush in Protoss v Protoss' infancy and recall how much the community struggled to deal with it. Now you have 3 gate blink stalkers, 3 gate robo, etc etc. These weren't all completely independant of Blizzard's intervention, production speeds were changed once I believe to some units, but the point is they didn't say, 4 gate is too strong, best nerf it. Instead they said, let's see how the players deal with it and maybe give a little nudge.
Well, first I want to start off by saying you obviously havnt played ScToo for very long if this is how you feel about it. Blizzard will jump on any chance they can get to nerf Terran. Thorzian used a Thor rush in a tourny final, Thors were nerfed almost the next day, MVP ((or MMA, i forget)) used a Ghost strat to snipe Zergs T3 in a tourny, snipe was gutted almost a week later, BBS ((Barracks barracks supply if you dont konw)) was used a few times, and it recieved a nerf just as quickly as people picked it up, Blue Flame was used with success in a tournament and was nerfed almost immediatly, s-Tanks were effective as siege units ((yaknow Siege Tanks)) and their damage was nerfed because of it, reactor hellions became popular for slowing zerg down and were indirectly nerfed, There was a strat for harassing with Vikings yup you guessed it, nerfed, Reaper harrass was used and again, instead of letting the players figure it out Blizzard nerfed the unit to a point were you just DONT see it anymore...

There are more and for the other two races ((4 gate got nerfed, if you dont recall, which is why 3 gating became popular in the first place)), but what im getting at, is Blizzard is ham fisted with their nerfs, they only recently ((Queen range +2 patch)) started leaving their game alone to let the players figure things out ((that is about 1 1/2 years of constant nerfing of things, without giving the players time to figure them out)), and now the game is out of wack, balance wise, were 1 race is absolutly dominating everything, but Blizzard will not release another patch ((because they have their $60 expansion coming out within who knows when))..

Saying Blizzard hasnt dictated how ScToo is played is asinine, because the way ScToo is currently played has been 100% dictated by Blizzard ((making the maps HUGE so that macro play is the only way to play)). I mean, as we speak, Blizzard is trying to FORCE Terran players to use Ravens ((even though Terran players have voiced their opinion on the Raven, and why it isnt a good unit)), because Blizzard says Ravens are good and Terrans should use them, while at the same time refusing to listen to their community and not giving the Raven any buffs to make it actually usefull..


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Mayan Snipe Jock

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Senior Member

09-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4set View Post
Well, first I want to start off by saying you obviously havnt played ScToo for very long if this is how you feel about it. Blizzard will jump on any chance they can get to nerf Terran. Thorzian used a Thor rush in a tourny final, Thors were nerfed almost the next day, MVP ((or MMA, i forget)) used a Ghost strat to snipe Zergs T3 in a tourny, snipe was gutted almost a week later, BBS ((Barracks barracks supply if you dont konw)) was used a few times, and it recieved a nerf just as quickly as people picked it up, Blue Flame was used with success in a tournament and was nerfed almost immediatly, s-Tanks were effective as siege units ((yaknow Siege Tanks)) and their damage was nerfed because of it, reactor hellions became popular for slowing zerg down and were indirectly nerfed, There was a strat for harassing with Vikings yup you guessed it, nerfed, Reaper harrass was used and again, instead of letting the players figure it out Blizzard nerfed the unit to a point were you just DONT see it anymore...

There are more and for the other two races ((4 gate got nerfed, if you dont recall, which is why 3 gating became popular in the first place)), but what im getting at, is Blizzard is ham fisted with their nerfs, they only recently ((Queen range +2 patch)) started leaving their game alone to let the players figure things out ((that is about 1 1/2 years of constant nerfing of things, without giving the players time to figure them out)), and now the game is out of wack, balance wise, were 1 race is absolutly dominating everything, but Blizzard will not release another patch ((because they have their $60 expansion coming out within who knows when))..

Saying Blizzard hasnt dictated how ScToo is played is asinine, because the way ScToo is currently played has been 100% dictated by Blizzard ((making the maps HUGE so that macro play is the only way to play)). I mean, as we speak, Blizzard is trying to FORCE Terran players to use Ravens ((even though Terran players have voiced their opinion on the Raven, and why it isnt a good unit)), because Blizzard says Ravens are good and Terrans should use them, while at the same time refusing to listen to their community and not giving the Raven any buffs to make it actually usefull..
Not sure of the exact dates of some of the events you're mentioning, but to give some counterpoints:

MVP ((or MMA, i forget)) used a Ghost strat to snipe Zergs T3 in a tourny, snipe was gutted almost a week later

This isn't the reason snipe was nerfed by my recollection it was also being a pain in a lot of other areas, against protoss it was decent, zerg too strong. This was known before that example - the problem was that (wasn't it MVP?) proved what had been ranted about for a long time. That deserved a nerf, as there was data to back up their perspective on it.

BBS ((Barracks barracks supply if you dont konw)) was used a few times, and it recieved a nerf just as quickly as people picked it up

This was near the start of the game, as far as I'm concerned they released a "champion" too strong and then nerfed it, this is a poor example, no one is talking about release zin xhao being used in a comp and then the comp being nerfed, he was too strong on his own.

Blue Flame was used with success in a tournament and was nerfed almost immediatly

Blue flame was a menace for about 5 tournies straight. If something is struggled with for that long in a game like sc2, you know it's too strong.

-----------------

Not going to cover every example you listed, but I have been playing a lot of SC2 since it's release, believe me these nerfs were not knee-jerk reactions. Not to mention that as an earlier poster noted, the momentum of SC2 as an evolving E-Sport is far greater, due to the games being shorter and the amount of games that you can play in a small time frame. You can also use practice partners to grind one specific build to work out how to deal with it. I would go so far as to say a week in SC2 is a month in League in terms of what you can work out in terms of strategies, and counter strategies.


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Mayan Snipe Jock

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Senior Member

09-07-2012

Would be nice to see a red response to this, preferably someone from the live balance section =)


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Mayan Snipe Jock

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Senior Member

09-07-2012

Bump =)


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Mayan Snipe Jock

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Senior Member

09-09-2012

Bump, still would be interested in seeing a post from live design =)


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byobsoad2

Senior Member

09-09-2012

bump

I mostly stopped playing SR because it's always exactly the same. This idea could fix the staleness without changing a whole lot.


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Mayan Snipe Jock

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Senior Member

09-10-2012

Bump =)


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Mayan Snipe Jock

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09-10-2012

Bump =)


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Trumpet

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Senior Member

09-10-2012

Totally agree this makes sense riot should not nerf a start just because it is popular, however they should look more over a long period of time rather than one month maybe even two is enough.


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Anemona

Senior Member

09-10-2012

agree 98% (it's my opinion, so i have a right number for it).

another problem is that league is limited on its own; there is not much diversity to create new counters. (and existing counters are nerfed)
you get a lot of the same in different packages.

be it from items or champs.


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