(Guide)AP Shaco: Toggle the Clown!

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Klazzix

Senior Member

12-23-2009

The OP must really be a clown.


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T0ggle

Member

12-24-2009

@inept If you really thought that AP was terrible, you'd shut your mouth and keep that thought to yourself. Next time you have a thought, just let it go, you'll be waaaay ahead of the game.

@PrawnWonton i'm severly pissed off over idiots, in my pubs and around my threads, I wish people would ask me for advice nicely and stop trolling my threads.
My advice doesn't boil down to being pro like me, i've never seen anyone pull off shaco the way I have, but i've seen people take my guide and kickass with it.

I just played a game with a buddy using my guide, we weren't up against noobs, he got maxed out stacks by the time it was 45minutes, he was dishing out 300damage jitbs, wich was enough to bring any champion to 50% hp or less(unless its a tank)

Try ganking with just 1 jitb dealing 300dps, 300x5=1500+fear+1200hallucinate+700shiv=3400
Now take 3 jitbs 900x5=4500+fear+1200hallucinate+shiv at leat 2-3times=7100.
AP shaco does a ****load of dps, you have to pull it off correctly.
if the enemy isn't running into your nest of jitbs you arent doing it right, there are always places through the jungle the enemy runs through, baron gank is one of those!

Your questions are not legitimate, because they are very stupid and i'm sick of questions like this,
If you can't bomb a pro then your obviously not doing it right, I can't give you any real tips on using hallucinate because there are so many different situations to use it in different ways.
If your to lazy to wait 30seconds to post 3 jitbs then your to lazy to play shaco altogether, either way both ap and ad are going to have the same CD on jitbs but ap is going to deal more damage.
1 ap jitb = 3 ad jitbs

How much more information do you need, I realize what you are trying to say(in a legitimate way)

Toggle, please tell me how to trick pros into thinking my double is me
@You can't always make the enemy think your double is you, early levels it takes massive damage and dies fast so you gotta learn how to use turret damage to your advantage with suicide bombing enemy champions. but at higher levels amongst a 4v4 or 5v5 fight they don't tend to knotice theres only 1 shaco amongst them, aoes tend to kill the shaco and bomb many of them. not all fights are in a lane or around a tower, some are at baron and around jungle if not they are balanced out.

Toggle can you tell me how to use jitbs correctly im not using them right
@I posted screenshots to give you an "idea" on were to put them, the rest i'd hope you'd figure out yourself because its not that hard. get creative, see were the enemy tends to go through the jungle, have your team try to bait them to the jungle(it is possible) use baron gank late game to your advantage, don't always use the same spot over and over unless that team is willing to full frontal assault you.

Toggle tell me how to shiv, fear and shiv again
@I'll try to get a video going for this later, right now just keep practicing it, sooner or later you'll get what i'm saying.

The way you put your questions makes it seem like you are bashing on my guide and AP shaco builds in general. If you think AD is better quit posting on my guide, but if you wish to understand why ap is better then ad, ask nicely, give me simple and direct questions, and for FFS quit giving me stupid questions. i'm done answering stupid people because they are way to ignorant to understand a thing.


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Stimraug

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Senior Member

12-24-2009

I've been playing Shaco using T0ggle's build for about 20 games now. 15 wins and 5 losses, and I do not think I'm pro or the like. My ELO is such that with an AT with 1 friend we usually face lvl 30's while i'm still 25 (not sure how big the difference in ELO is). AP Shaco owns in my experience.

Just last game I got the fun chance to duel a AD shaco in the jungle. He had a golem aura, whereas I did not. We were quite equal in items and stats, I had a kill or two more than he did. It was 30 seconds of deceiving, jtb duels and shivving the other as much as possible. We both missed each other with our clones so that did not help me. My jtb finished his clone quite quick whereas my clone got detonated by a nearby sion. I was left with 200 hp and won. \o/

AP shaco ftw.

EDIT: Again dueled an AD Shaco. He was much better than the one earlier and got even fed 4/0 at start. Then I shivved him.


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PrawnWonton

Senior Member

12-24-2009

Played some games today.

Against total noobies, AP Shaco is decent. It is fun luring people into JitB nests and watching them die. It is fun to shiv people for periodic damage. Bombing them with Hallucinate is entertaining.

However, against anyone with half a brain, he is pretty marginal. Doesn't really provide much help in team battles at all, aside from the occasional Shiv and 1 second fear. Can't push a lane at all. You are left with autoattacks doing zero damage. Same against turrets. Totally useless. After you lure 1 person into a JitB nest, nobody on their team will ever fall for it again. And in dynamic team battles, you never get more than a couple JitB's AT MOST. And usually peole only get hit w/ 2-3 shots before they are out of range, or the JitB switches targets; very unpredictable. Relying on luring 1 and only 1 person into JitB range is sketchy. He is excellent at getting people to half health or below, but after that, you got no follow up. And as soon as people put some magic resist on, your only nuke is reduced to near uselessness.

I dunno, I see how he COULD be good, but you have to depend on your opponent's stupidity. In nearly every situation I found myself in, I felt AD Shaco would have done a superior job.

AD Shaco meshes very well with all his skills. His passive screams it. 25% extra damage from behind is massive. Your clone does ridiculous damage while he is alive. You still benefit from JitB fear for ganks and team fights. Yay AP Shaco can Shiv for 600+. Then wait for 10 seconds before he can do it again. AD Shaco does that with autoattacks. Just 1 Deceive backstab equals AP Shaco's Shiv+Hallucinate, AND you are able to actually follow up with it.

Being forced to rely on the very unreliable JitBs for a large portion of your damage is sketchy.

That is my 2 cents. Obviously, your mileage may vary. I gave it the old college try. Apparently I am not "PRO enough", even though I was able to execute every maneuver in the guide. "Underwhelmed" is the word to describe my feelings.

Peace out.


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EnronTheGreat

Senior Member

12-24-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrawnWonton View Post

That is my 2 cents. Obviously, your mileage may vary. I gave it the old college try. Apparently I am not "PRO enough", even though I was able to execute every maneuver in the guide. "Underwhelmed" is the word to describe my feelings.

Peace out.
bu-bu-but.... the guide has VIDEOS!!! Surely you saw the VIDEOS right?! Clearly, you aren't playing PRO enough. If you do well as AD, you must be playing NOOBS. I mean, if you can't get the teamfight to wait 30-60 seconds or more while you plant jitbs, use shiv 2 times in your opener, and fool them with your hallucinate, then clearly you aren't pro.

I feel wierd, i think i was just channeling someone....


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Zenryo

Junior Member

12-24-2009

Thank you for the guide, Toggle.

I've only played with Shaco a few time (read: 2 or 3) before the Store was opened, and it's a champion that I had taken a liking too; so now I think I'll go ahead and buy this one and try out your strat.

A few things, out of the top of my head (and this goes for a lot of AD guides I read as well):
Just stacking AP (or AD for that matter), won't that make Shaco just a liiiittle bit too squishy at times? Most of the guides I read just don't seem to bother with any defense items, while I find the Mercury Threads is saving me so much headache on most of my characters, as well as Banshee's Veil for example (altho that is dependant on how magic/disable heavy the opposing team is ofcourse). I'm sure you can get along without much armor/MR in practice games against noobs, but against a pro team, I dunno...

Also, how viable is Mejai's still, after it got nerfed?

This thread has made my head spin about AP versus AD but that I will have to try out for myself I guess... I'm hoping I'll have fun with Shaco either way


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Cesar Chavez

Junior Member

12-24-2009

Enron, honestly, you're acting like a child. Even if you disagree with AP Shaco being the "best" build, there's no need to insult him and troll his thread.

Here's my two cents on AP Shaco. Okay, I just tried him out and went 22/4/4, but honestly, it was mostly due to the stupidity of our opponents. JitB nests take a lot of time to set up and aren't always successful. Two shiv does a large amount of burst damage, but what are you going to do after that? Chase them and do 200 crit with deceive? It's just not always effective. Of course in team fights, hallucinate can be useful, but it's very obvious that it's not the real Shaco when it's doing 80 damage and every time someone hits it, it loses 1/4 of its life bar... I'll stick to DPS Shaco.


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EnronTheGreat

Senior Member

12-24-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesar Chavez View Post
Enron, honestly, you're acting like a child. Even if you disagree with AP Shaco being the "best" build, there's no need to insult him and troll his thread.

Here's my two cents on AP Shaco. Okay, I just tried him out and went 22/4/4, but honestly, it was mostly due to the stupidity of our opponents. JitB nests take a lot of time to set up and aren't always successful. Two shiv does a large amount of burst damage, but what are you going to do after that? Chase them and do 200 crit with deceive? It's just not always effective. Of course in team fights, hallucinate can be useful, but it's very obvious that it's not the real Shaco when it's doing 80 damage and every time someone hits it, it loses 1/4 of its life bar... I'll stick to DPS Shaco.
If you look at the last few of my posts i'm being polite, and I really think you should tally up whos been insulting who. Thanks for the input, and you should probably look up the definition of trolling. All of my points since the begining have been valid.


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T0ggle

Member

12-24-2009

@enronthegreat, no you are trolling my thread and insulting my good personality and image. not to mention try to make it sound like I have a huge ego when really it seems like you have the Ego here. You think AD is the best shaco build, thats your big ego, its such a big ego you'd literaly post your opinion in a troll way on my thread, when in reality, if you were an adult with half a mind you'd keep those thoughts to yourself and maybe say one thing. that you think ad is better and thats it. but instead you try to insult me and my guide in the worst way possible.
please stop posting on my guide, I already told you, you made your point back off. Yet you continue to be a smartass.
@PrawnWonton, you are trolling my thread once again, you don't fully understand AP's abilitys nor will take the time, have the patience to learn it. your straight foward blantant "This guide sucks because I can't use it right" really gets on my nerves.
You ask for help then you say things like "this only works against total noobs" overexagerate things like "Tell the other team to wait 3 minutes while I make a jitb nest"
if your going to ask for help, or a reason for why ap is better then ad, don't ask stupid questions, don't make fun of the build and my guide. don't give me **** about it only works against noobs, its working against noobs with you because all you face is noobs. your elo is never going to get high enough to play against pros. wich btw, your comment about doing 600+damage with auto attacks is severly wrong, by late game your only going to have nearly 300-400attack damage and all attacks are reduced with armor, check it 100armor=50% less damage+dodges affect.
that means even if you manage to get 800damage from all crit damage runes and 1 decieve, its reduced to 400, and your shivs/hallucinate will be reduced by half because you have no magic pen.
Please don't post on my guide again, your a jerk.

@Zenryo shaco is an assassin, its in the assassin category for a reason, assassins have one main purpose and that is to not get hit as much as possible and dish out as much damage as possible. assassins deal the most damage in the game, they are built to nuke the other team.
Mejais is great, it use to give 140ap maxed out and never lost any "stacks" but now it gives 200ap and a cooldown reduction when maxed out. it is an even greater item and I still highly suggest you get it.
It shouldn't make your head spin about AD vs AP, the only reason its doing that is because jackass's like enron, inept and wonton are posting rude and obnoxious things on my thread. this is why I made another thread in the general forums asking admins to give thread starters the ability to delete other peoples posts.
It is bs and I've already asked nicely for these people to leave my thread, but asking a brat not to do something only encourages them further.

@cesar chavez thank you for knoticing this mans behavior, he really has it out for me.
as for your 2cents about ap shaco, its great you put your opinion about the 2, and im glad you didn't say it in a way that was mean towards my guide, like saying its only good against noobs.


In my own opinion about all this, AP is better then AD, it does more damage and takes more skill. the fact that everyone thinks ap doesn't work against pros is because they think pros don't jungle, or go near baron for that matter, and stick to only lanes near towers. In their mind, jitbs can't me massed to bait enemys into them.
As for my last input, for the last time, please, PLEASE! and I absolutely cannot stress this out enough, stop trolling my thread, I am done hearing you talk smartass.


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Cesar Chavez

Junior Member

12-24-2009

I mean it's good, but you're going to have to have a lot of foresight and it takes a lot of mind games to be successful.