(Guide)AP Shaco: Toggle the Clown!

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Almighty1

Senior Member

02-09-2010

Learn to spell ‘poison’.

Also...
- 9-0-21 is better for AP Shaco because it still give you MPen while giving you vital MRegen and CDR and longer rune buffs
- Your seal slots are better used for CDR/level, MRegenp5/level, etc.
- Rally is an AD Shaco's tower killing/teamfight move; teleport, exhaust or cleanse (read below) are better for Shaco
- Philo stone is really unnecessary apart from for newbs; someone of ‘your skill level' should be able to do fine without any HP regen, and if you really do need it a Haunting Guise at the start should be enough. The gold/5 is negligible when you can better item to *ensure* a kill instead of having the enemy run away on 10 HP after ignite ends.
- To do 0.9k damage with a shiv and 1.2k damage with a hallucinate explosion you would need to have 600 AP and for the enemy to have no MR, which hardly ever happens
- You are greatly underestimating the damage of a JitB; they scale with a 0.35:1 AP ratio (1.05:1 if it attacks 3 times) so if I go by your previous “600 AP, no MR” then one JitB will do 200-250 damage per hit and, going by an average of 4 hits per box will deal somewhere between 800 and 1000 damage (even more if it gets more hits in)
- Late game you should not be wasting your time planting JitB nests – EVER. The 30+ seconds you spend planting them could very well mean the loss of a team mate and the victim of your nest most likely has a friend (or 4) near him
- Sheen (and later lichbane) is a great item for AP Shaco and I wouldn’t skip it
- Bloodrazors would be a good item for your build with all that MPen
- Nashor’s tooth is also a great AP Shaco item

Cleanse:
You seem to dislike this summoner spell but it in reality is a Shaco's 'oh noez' button in conjunction with Q. TF destiny-gating you? Cleanse > Q. Fiddlesticks feared you in crowstorm? Cleanse > Q.

Hopefully you can take some of my points and improve your AP Shaco, or at least your guide.


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T0ggle

Member

02-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almighty1 View Post
Learn to spell ‘poison’.

Also...
- 9-0-21 is better for AP Shaco because it still give you MPen while giving you vital MRegen and CDR and longer rune buffs
- Your seal slots are better used for CDR/level, MRegenp5/level, etc.
- Rally is an AD Shaco's tower killing/teamfight move; teleport, exhaust or cleanse (read below) are better for Shaco
- Philo stone is really unnecessary apart from for newbs; someone of ‘your skill level' should be able to do fine without any HP regen, and if you really do need it a Haunting Guise at the start should be enough. The gold/5 is negligible when you can better item to *ensure* a kill instead of having the enemy run away on 10 HP after ignite ends.
- To do 0.9k damage with a shiv and 1.2k damage with a hallucinate explosion you would need to have 600 AP and for the enemy to have no MR, which hardly ever happens
- You are greatly underestimating the damage of a JitB; they scale with a 0.35:1 AP ratio (1.05:1 if it attacks 3 times) so if I go by your previous “600 AP, no MR” then one JitB will do 200-250 damage per hit and, going by an average of 4 hits per box will deal somewhere between 800 and 1000 damage (even more if it gets more hits in)
- Late game you should not be wasting your time planting JitB nests – EVER. The 30+ seconds you spend planting them could very well mean the loss of a team mate and the victim of your nest most likely has a friend (or 4) near him
- Sheen (and later lichbane) is a great item for AP Shaco and I wouldn’t skip it
- Bloodrazors would be a good item for your build with all that MPen
- Nashor’s tooth is also a great AP Shaco item

Cleanse:
You seem to dislike this summoner spell but it in reality is a Shaco's 'oh noez' button in conjunction with Q. TF destiny-gating you? Cleanse > Q. Fiddlesticks feared you in crowstorm? Cleanse > Q.

Hopefully you can take some of my points and improve your AP Shaco, or at least your guide.
When shaco was released I saw two shiv poisen in the tool tip, exactly how it was put, if you got a problem with that take it up with the gms though its probably fixed by now.
The fact that you took the time to correct me, don't even bother this is the internet, its not to important to have grammar here.

-My masterie set gives masteries in havoc, and summoner spell buffs.
Ignite is a must to finish people off and reduce healing regen, rally is a must because a very lot of times you'll be needing healing and rally not only posses enormous healing over time but also AP and AD gain. If you have masteries in rally you'll be benifiting yourself in AP gain and your laning partner in basic ad attacks. its a very effective group buff for casters and melee'ers alike. you are severly underestimating this and the 5% ap gain through havoc masterie.
-CDR maybe, anything else no, I still use crit damage because As I said its a slight advantage, possibly even a more slight advantage then getting 2.5cdr% in seal runes.
-Teleport is for the low level, cleanse is for ****ing tanks, and exhaust is for AD shaco, telling me rally is bad is just plain stupid!
-I explained this somewhere else, Pros use philosophers stone. the healing regen is needed because I play a very aggressive lifestyle so I need regen on me at all times, and by the time late game arrives philosophers stone will have double or even tripled my money gain from buying it, I won't be down in 1kgold, i'll be given back my money with interest.
-hardly ever is hardly true, but on average someone below my skill would manage about 400-500AP with my guide exactly the way its put, thats stil 650-750shiv damage.
-ok, If I manage 600ap wich I do often, my jitbs deal 400damage. thats enough to down any type of tank. underestimating? no, where do you get that idea from.
-early to late game always plant JITB, its a need, don't know what your doing but it sounds to me like you got your head up your ass, I wouldn't want to be caught without a retreat plan with jitbs in my retreat path at all times. This can also be used as a team bait method of retreat.
-Nashors tooth sheen and blood razors says you want to melee, I already said I don't melee, my build is caster/gank, blood razors sucks unless on AD, and I always skip lichbane for something else like voidstaff for more magic pen.
-Cleanse can easily be replaced with rally or ignite for more damage, obviously you missed the "i'm about maxing my DAMAGE thread in page 1"

taking some of your point to improve what?
anyone thats used my build directly how its put with the runes, items, and masteries has proven successfull in every endevour, my guide is all about maxing damage as an AP shaco and proves way more dangerous then your build.
normaly I would have taken this as just a simple opinion as yours and that it was nice in all but in the end you insult me by saying improve my guide.
This is my guide of all guides, I don't believe it gets any better then this, this is the best shaco guide, I know this to be a fact. anyone trying to tamper with its build is only going to head downhill, your damage isn't going to be as good, and your never going to survive in pro matchs.

hate to break it to you but your weakness is that you build upon survival and slight melee. I build on full damage, then use my brain for survival.


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Sh4dx

Member

02-13-2010

I cant say ap shaco is bad cause i saw some very good ap shacos also tried it and is fun, but the things you can do whit a dps shaco like me normal early game whit 12 kills on min 10. If you are good enougth whit times (shaco is all about the timing) you never will be hited and can just go for damage all the way.

In me opinion shaco is the best champion on lol. The hardest to master too.


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Chizzburger

Member

02-16-2010

Really nice guide. I'm going to have to try this out sometimes, but i have to disagree with you about an attack power shaco. With armour pen items (last whisper and the brutaliser) crit damage runes and an infinity edge, later game it is possible to hit 1100+ decieve and around 1000 with normal attacks.

With the ap shaco, you may be able to do more damage in a shorter amount of time but cool downs limit the ability to keep it up for a large duration.

Now im not trying to say your guide is bad but to just look at shaco differently.

~~Chizzburger


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Carados

Senior Member

02-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
The fact that you took the time to correct me, don't even bother this is the internet, its not to important to have grammar here.
Not unless you want to be understood, which seems to be a major problem in your threads. If you could spend a few seconds writing so everyone could understand it, possibly the amount of time you have to spend typing out replies would decrease?


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T0ggle

Member

02-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
Not unless you want to be understood, which seems to be a major problem in your threads. If you could spend a few seconds writing so everyone could understand it, possibly the amount of time you have to spend typing out replies would decrease?
You may need to rewrite this in english so I can understand what your trying to say lol.
my threads are pretty easy to be Understood, I make it simple and without a wall of txt.
Still, the fact that you are defending grammar over the internet is a shame.


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SEKplayer

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Junior Member

02-16-2010

Hey Toggle,

I've been following the guide since I first started playing. Helped me a lot in my first games so I didn't play like a complete n00b. =)

I wanted to ask if you had any advice on placing jitbs during a fight. I can't seem to get the jitbs to hit champions in a fight, more of small 2v2 fights not the big team fights. When I go in for a gank I place a jitb in between the champion and their closest turret, this works mostly. I also do the jitb nests, love those. But other than these two scenarios it seems that my jitbs just hit minions. I've only played about 70 games, so i'm still newish to the game.

Any help would be appreciated.


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T0ggle

Member

02-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEKplayer View Post
Hey Toggle,

I've been following the guide since I first started playing. Helped me a lot in my first games so I didn't play like a complete n00b. =)

I wanted to ask if you had any advice on placing jitbs during a fight. I can't seem to get the jitbs to hit champions in a fight, more of small 2v2 fights not the big team fights. When I go in for a gank I place a jitb in between the champion and their closest turret, this works mostly. I also do the jitb nests, love those. But other than these two scenarios it seems that my jitbs just hit minions. I've only played about 70 games, so i'm still newish to the game.

Any help would be appreciated.
During a fight ur best bet is to put 2 jitbs before they go into attacking you, utliize jungling baiting a lot, also, if you put jitbs in a spot for retreating, you can ping the map and tell your team that incase of an emergency or if possible, retreat towards the jitbs.


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Puddledive

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

02-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
Nope, my dodgerunebook leaves me with 16% dodge early game, 36% with phantom mid game. thats a 64%chance to hit me, not getting owned, because you gotta remember blind and exhaust used right can leave your attacks missing.
And what your saying to us isn't as valid as what dwilight said, if your a level 18summoner, heck it don't even matter what level you are, if you have 33 wins, your a noob and your opinions are invalid.
If your going to say something about my guide, make sure you have real experience, like long term gaming, high level with many wins.
I myself have 242wins, and i've been playing since closed beta, i've used every champion at least 10times, my most used are shaco and teemo.

About having more accounts, thats bull****, you and I both know it. nobody gets a level 30account then makes a complete new one, unless your trying to fight noobs your skill level so you continue to make noob accounts, wich is still pretty pathetic and dumb.
Anyone smart would stick to a level 30account, continuasly play it for the IP gain, try to buy every rune and champion.

he did set him straight, go read what makki is saying, he talks like hes all badass godlike, as if he never gets dodged and armor doesn't hurt him at all.
I did my research on his profile, level 30 with 184wins, mostly a 1.40kdr ratio(if you've ever played fps games you'd know what I mean)
I'm not going to say hes a bad shaco, cause i've never seen his gameplay and who am I to judge, but for him to think hes godlike is pathetic. if his ad shaco build was so awesome he'd be getting a 1.80-2.0kdr ratio.

At any rate don't you think these supposed "trolls" that are backing my guide up are just defending my guide?
if you believe ad shaco is better you should say it in a non condencending matter, you should take the time to practice with ad and ap shaco many games then post valid points on both. otherwise your just acting like its your way or the highway.
I've tried both ap and ad, crit damage runes, magic pen, crit chance, cd reduct, the works, what does the most damage is AP and this guide proves that.
Ok. I really liked your guide. It had a lot of very useful and well thought out information. It made me curious about what else may be here for good information and I kept reading. I really wish that I hadn't.

In the above post you discredit someone's strategy by stating that you have a book spec that has insane dodge. The only flaw in this argument is that you already state that you use the spec in the guide because it is the absolute best possible spec with no exceptions. Anytime someone commented on the spec or gave a different opinion, you slammed them down declaring that your posted spec is the ONLY right spec.

The reason I bring this up is due to the insanity of such an argument. Just because I have a gun at home that I never take with me to the mall does not make me immune to a guy jumping me in the parking lot with a knife. It doesn't matter what I have at home because it isn't going to help me with the problem at hand. In short, that argument fails horribly.

Later you mock someone for pointing out your spelling error. First, it isn't a grammatical error, it is a spelling error. They never bring up grammar, you do. You could have said spelling is rather unimportant as long as the word is understood, and you would have been right. Instead you try to point out that grammar is completely unimportant; that would be quite wrong.

I am of the opinion that you would have been far better served to keep your posts to those that brought discussion. That isn't what you really want though, so I suppose it is a silly thought. You want to be the best player with the best strategy that nobody can ever counter. It quite simply isn't the case.

I am sad that I read through the thread and watched your credibility get destroyed as you responded to all the trolls in a similar fashion. The pure arrogance you show makes me less and less likely to take anything you say as having real merit. You could have ignored the fights and stuck with the facts and kept a good reputation. I am sorry that you chose not to.

Hopefully more people will just stop after the first post and possibly get some benefit from the thread still. I sure wish I had.


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T0ggle

Member

02-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddledive View Post
Ok. I really liked your guide. It had a lot of very useful and well thought out information. It made me curious about what else may be here for good information and I kept reading. I really wish that I hadn't.

In the above post you discredit someone's strategy by stating that you have a book spec that has insane dodge. The only flaw in this argument is that you already state that you use the spec in the guide because it is the absolute best possible spec with no exceptions. Anytime someone commented on the spec or gave a different opinion, you slammed them down declaring that your posted spec is the ONLY right spec.

The reason I bring this up is due to the insanity of such an argument. Just because I have a gun at home that I never take with me to the mall does not make me immune to a guy jumping me in the parking lot with a knife. It doesn't matter what I have at home because it isn't going to help me with the problem at hand. In short, that argument fails horribly.

Later you mock someone for pointing out your spelling error. First, it isn't a grammatical error, it is a spelling error. They never bring up grammar, you do. You could have said spelling is rather unimportant as long as the word is understood, and you would have been right. Instead you try to point out that grammar is completely unimportant; that would be quite wrong.

I am of the opinion that you would have been far better served to keep your posts to those that brought discussion. That isn't what you really want though, so I suppose it is a silly thought. You want to be the best player with the best strategy that nobody can ever counter. It quite simply isn't the case.

I am sad that I read through the thread and watched your credibility get destroyed as you responded to all the trolls in a similar fashion. The pure arrogance you show makes me less and less likely to take anything you say as having real merit. You could have ignored the fights and stuck with the facts and kept a good reputation. I am sorry that you chose not to.

Hopefully more people will just stop after the first post and possibly get some benefit from the thread still. I sure wish I had.
it seems like you have no real idea on what going on.
1.this arguement on dodge was ended quite awhile ago, the arguement I believe started because a man was claiming that he was invincable(or at least made it sound that way).
god my memory sucks, barely remember this arguement, and I don't really want to reread everything, but as i do remember I told him that a person with full dodge can and will have a 36%+ dodge ratio against his decieve, and he responded saying he never gets dodged.

2.Slamming people is a harsh word, concerns on my guide aren't needed, some people are just idiots, most of them claim that my guide fails yet none of them have even tried my guide no had the capability to execute it correctly.
but for the most part, when someone has a concern about my guide and tells me there is another way to pull this off, most of the time I feel like im being attacked because of the way they make use of words. it sounds like they want to sound as if they are just asking a simple question, but in that question they put in a direct insult or offensive content or smartass sentences that make me believe they are just trying to sneak a flame on me.
If you got issues with the way I react towards other people, try putting yourself in my shoes. You have no idea the **** that I put up with, the direspect, the **** people flood other players minds about me. And over all the worst of lies about my personality.
(wich btw, what you are doing right now is trying to to say something nice, but in the end you sneak in a few insults here and there. you may not notice this, but your being an ass)

3.I never mocked him for my spelling error, he mocked me and I told him grammar is not needed on the internet. wtf makes you think im mocking him? are you just here to defend people that insult me?

4."You want to be the best player with the best strategy that nobody can ever counter. It quite simply isn't the case" thats your belief, but you don't know me, so don't make judgements on someone you don't know. its clear to me your an ass. take that how you want, but this insults and offends me.

5.my credibility hasn't been destroyed at all, its all how you percieve me to be.
In everygame I play, at least 1 person or more reconizes me and expects greatly from me. my buddys think im famous, I get a lot of good feedback from players saying they love me guides and some even were inspired to do better in other champions stradegys.
Ontop of all that, anyones thats played with me and that isn't an immature teenager, has had a lot of fun playing with me. I've made a great amount of friends from CB>OB>official release wich makes up my 100+ or so friends on my friends list.
I have never added anyone to my friends list, people add me cause I am a great player to have around and someone fun to game with.
**** my font has gotten weird and I can't figure out how to fix it, i think i hit control something and ****ed it up....
w/e at any rate, your post was nothing more then judging me based on my replys.
gtfo you have no place here.