(Guide)AP Shaco: Toggle the Clown!

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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by makkii View Post
sooo uhhh, if i attack 1.5 times per second for a guaranteed 1100-1200 damage (unless a tank* with just my auto attack thats about 1600-1700 dps just from attacks am i right? hitting for 300 damage 1 hit per second a full nest of boxes would be doing 1500 dps right? magic resist scales better than armor amirite? most tanks get a mix of both right? did i mention my hallucinate outdamages an ap hallucinate bomb in about 4 seconds? or that my shivs hit for about 500 with my lategame build? oh hey and my hallucinate bomb STILL does a few hundred damage? who woulda guessed?! oh **** i forgot decieve!

seriously though, whats all this bull**** about AP shaco out dpsing AD shaco, cant even do that with a full nest.

so lets go over some notes, my auto attacks out dps a whole box nest

my hallucinate out dps's yours most if not all the time

my shiv hits for 60-75% of what yours does

magic resist scales better than armor

i dont have to set a box nest in the forest and wait for players to walk in and then realize they wont because they have a brain.

i decieve for over 1200 damage?
Think dude, think real hard, your talking about auto attacks and decieveing for more damage. You can't be far away auto attacking and decieveing, you have to be in the front lines, wich means your open to getting your ass kicked and because your an assassin your not tank, you die quickly.
Its not just that, do auto attacks take skill? no they don't, right clicking a guy and letting your character do the work is not skill, its stupid and not challenging at all.

In my own experience AP has done more damage then AD and takes a lot of skill to pull off correctly.
AD shaco never reachs 900 damage against a tank with armor, and your arguement that tanks get magic resist and armor is bs, because if you are up against a team with 3 ad's 2 being carrys and then 2 aps, you get to choose wether or not you want to get dps items, magic resist or armor. most commonly people get armor, its easy and melee carrys auto attacks are devestating so its basicly a need.
Normaly when fighting me they might get a banshees but thats it, and that doesn't even matter because my magic pen always outdoes your armor pen of 40%.

My shiv reach 950damage, jitbs 400, hallucinate 1200, I've seen it with maxed out mejais, all that damage goes straight to their hp, hallucinate being an aoe and jitbs not only attacking champions but also obliterating towers.
What I have also seen is anyone with dodge runebook or dodge items dodging decieves, when someone dodges your decieve what do to you do? call him lucky and let him get away or get anti ganked by your assailant. When I shiv, it doesn't get dodged, nor does my hallucinate and jitbs, I don't have to worry about someone getting lucky, I just have to worry about my own skill and intellect.

We've already gone over this time and time again, if your to lazy to read the last posts or my guide in full I can understand, but if you actualy took the time to read these posts and my arguement against ad at the bottom of my guide then it goes to show how ignorant you are.
Not trying to be mean here, but i've seen this ignorance before, so I can't tell if you truly are being ignorant or stubborn or whatever you want to call it. so point me in the direction you are going, and we'll see were we land on this disscussion.


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Reivur

Senior Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
Its not just that, do auto attacks take skill? no they don't, right clicking a guy and letting your character do the work is not skill, its stupid and not challenging at all.
There is one thing of note I'd like to add about Shaco which applies to AD a bit more; regardless he's one of the only champion's who has incredible incentive to position himself in battle. Its ideal to always be behind your opponent. By default that pretty much makes him more 'skillful' than any other DPS carry in the game if you want to maximize your damage for those 25% backstabs.

Just food for thought. You don't have to right click and call it a day; it isn't ideal. That would actually make you subpar even as an AD Shaco. While some will flee from you and make it effortless, others won't and you'll have to be persistent. Clever use of hallucinate positioning can make it where each of you attack from both sides. As you won't do anything but an introductory Deceive early on unless you have a buff applied its going to be a bit more difficult to tell which is real or fake while sawing through them both directions since you don't spam other abilities to make it obvious which is real.


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

I will admit that sometimes backstabbing takes skill, especaily in the heat of battle, but the fact still remains to be seen. Auto attacks take no skill, Ap worked for me originaly because I dealt more damage and I got to play mind tricks on the enemy.
Ap shaco is also very challengeing and fun with enough practice.


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vasdeferens

Senior Member

01-07-2010

I play DPS Shaco and have found that while its true, there's a lot of auto attacking and therefore right clicking, one needs an extremely good game sense and a feel to when you must dedicate yourself to an attack. Not to mention the facts that a good Shaco attack needs to consist of a jack in the box and two shiv poison. Also, the ult is used for escape, tower rushing or attack. This requires skill or experience, what ever.

I've tried AP Shaco, and the playstyle is totally different with the whole luring and traps. But, I find it difficult to get the early kills in order to scale damage. On a whole, playing Shaco is never that easy.


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

Vasdeferens, here we use the words ad and ap, to me dps could mean anything.
But youve got a good grasp of things.


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makkii

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
Think dude, think real hard, your talking about auto attacks and decieveing for more damage. You can't be far away auto attacking and decieveing, you have to be in the front lines, wich means your open to getting your ass kicked and because your an assassin your not tank, you die quickly.
Its not just that, do auto attacks take skill? no they don't, right clicking a guy and letting your character do the work is not skill, its stupid and not challenging at all.

In my own experience AP has done more damage then AD and takes a lot of skill to pull off correctly.
AD shaco never reachs 900 damage against a tank with armor, and your arguement that tanks get magic resist and armor is bs, because if you are up against a team with 3 ad's 2 being carrys and then 2 aps, you get to choose wether or not you want to get dps items, magic resist or armor. most commonly people get armor, its easy and melee carrys auto attacks are devestating so its basicly a need.
Normaly when fighting me they might get a banshees but thats it, and that doesn't even matter because my magic pen always outdoes your armor pen of 40%.

My shiv reach 950damage, jitbs 400, hallucinate 1200, I've seen it with maxed out mejais, all that damage goes straight to their hp, hallucinate being an aoe and jitbs not only attacking champions but also obliterating towers.
What I have also seen is anyone with dodge runebook or dodge items dodging decieves, when someone dodges your decieve what do to you do? call him lucky and let him get away or get anti ganked by your assailant. When I shiv, it doesn't get dodged, nor does my hallucinate and jitbs, I don't have to worry about someone getting lucky, I just have to worry about my own skill and intellect.

We've already gone over this time and time again, if your to lazy to read the last posts or my guide in full I can understand, but if you actualy took the time to read these posts and my arguement against ad at the bottom of my guide then it goes to show how ignorant you are.
Not trying to be mean here, but i've seen this ignorance before, so I can't tell if you truly are being ignorant or stubborn or whatever you want to call it. so point me in the direction you are going, and we'll see were we land on this disscussion.

no one gets away dodging my decieve, I THREE SHOT THEM! even if they did they still wouldnt get away, not to mention i can pop shiv and keep on his ass, and whats that? theres a spell called exaust that slows? who woulda guessed! if a tank comes to help i just ignore him, if its another dps i finish one guy off and then kill him too

i have no problem pitting myself in the middle of the battle, especially when im fed, decieve in jitb attack hallucinate and have a field day.

i have hit tanks for more than 900 and i dont have to rely on cooldowns to do it.

your basing your information on situations, non existent ones at that, instead of the statistics. ill let you in on something.... the statistics say your wrong


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by makkii View Post
no one gets way dodging my decieve, I THREE SHOT THEM! even if they did they still wouldnt get away, not to mention i can pop shiv and keep on his ass, and whats that? theres a spell called exaust that slows? who woulda guessed! if a tank comes to help i just ignore him, if its another dps i finish one guy off and then kill him too

i have no problem pitting myself in the middle of the battle, especially when im fed, decieve in jitb attack hallucinate and have a field day.

i have hit tanks for more than 900 and i dont have to rely on cooldowns to do it.

your basing your information on situations, non existent ones at that, instead of the statistics. ill let you in on something.... the statistics say your wrong
I base my facts on experience, and the experience of the people around me whom have tried ad and ap.
With full dodge runebook(11%dodge) I still dodge up to 5 hits in a row a heck of a lot of times, so anyone with basic dodge is going to dodge your deceive and leave you having to auto attack them. if they keep dodging a few more hits, lets say your against a teemo, ya the teemo just won.
Being in the heat of battle think of decieveing in then getting nunu ultid because decieve is on cd.

what you are trying to tell me is that my information is invalid because nobody ever dodges your attack, nobody ever gets armor to counter your auto attacks, they purposly feed you all game long then you don't even care if your in the heat of battle.
Don't mean to be rude about all this but, don't tell me my facts are invalid, if you've played the game long enough you should know basic stuff. like how armor is the most commonly bought item to counter carrys, and how dodge can really mess up an ad shacos gank altogether.


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makkii

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
I base my facts on experience, and the experience of the people around me whom have tried ad and ap.
With full dodge runebook(11%dodge) I still dodge up to 5 hits in a row a heck of a lot of times, so anyone with basic dodge is going to dodge your deceive and leave you having to auto attack them. if they keep dodging a few more hits, lets say your against a teemo, ya the teemo just won.
Being in the heat of battle think of decieveing in then getting nunu ultid because decieve is on cd.

what you are trying to tell me is that my information is invalid because nobody ever dodges your attack, nobody ever gets armor to counter your auto attacks, they purposly feed you all game long then you don't even care if your in the heat of battle.
Don't mean to be rude about all this but, don't tell me my facts are invalid, if you've played the game long enough you should know basic stuff. like how armor is the most commonly bought item to counter carrys, and how dodge can really mess up an ad shacos gank altogether.
even with phantom dancer ive never seen anyone dodge anywhere near 5 in a row let aalone 5 in a whole fight against me. yes tanks get armor, but when i do as well as i do im not only lvls ahead of them there armor is not sufficient enough to beat me or severely hinder my dps, yes they are harder to kill even at that point than a squishy, but i still do alot of damage to them.

ive have never, i repeat have NEVER lost a kill to a dodge as shaco, period, end of story.

your still ignoring the fact that you need a full nest of jitb to even compete with AD shacos damage, anyone with a brain just wont run into them since you can only really set them in the jungle effectively AND shacos usually place them in the same key places.

as for the nunu ult, i have a full page of t3 cd reduc runes, i can decieve in and back out no prob


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Dwight K Shrute

Junior Member

01-08-2010

nice guide, too many trolls in this thread tho

with just 6.75% dodge runes, and no dodge from items, i once dodged a champ 3 times to stay alive, it was epic


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xCandles

Junior Member

01-08-2010

No seriously.

AP Shaco lets you do your job better, ganking.

If u wanna hard carry, go play Yi or something.

Seriously.