(Guide)AP Shaco: Toggle the Clown!

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T0ggle

Member

12-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadMan View Post
IMO attack damage exceed AP. Your guide is so un-organized. It is not in the general area for such and things just jump from one point to the other.

With attack have you taken in consideration that Sheen + Bloodthirster + B. Greaves + Infinity Edge can easily exceed the damage output of AP. Jack in the Boxes do take a while to set up and as said a good opponent can easily escape out of range or AoE them to death. I did not read every one of the 10 pages but I still feel that Damage can exceed AP. After a Sheen + Crit attack I can deal around 800+ damage every time after my abilities.

This was mentioned earlier but I would think that Lich Bane would still be better than Abyssal.
Say you have 400 AP with Lichbane. Your following attack will deal around 700-800 Damage after you used Shiv. Now without bane you can Shiv then attack for like 100. So by having your enemies resist mitigated you are doing, what 600 damage with that 400 AP Shiv or so (I am not sure on ratios and at work so rushing) then 100 which is 700 damage total. = to 1 Normal Attack after Bane.

The combo with normal attack goes (with my damage build): Deceive - Attack (500-600 [800-1000 if normal crit]) - Shiv (200-300 damage) - Attack (500-600[800-1000 if normal crit]). It is very often to crit and the amount of lifesteal, damage and attack speed makes it very easy to rack up kills. I once took out a Tryndanmere, Ashe and Nidalee at the same time without feeds.

Now perhaps I misunderstood but from my opinion Physical > AP. Overall your guide was reliable with starting tips and links bet then quickly fell.
How is my guide un-organized? I said at the top exactly how I was going to do it like a table of contents. I'm sorry this guide doesn't go in the order you are used too, so get used to it. Glad you've got an opinion about AD, but AP still exeeds ad damage by far, and I'm getting sick of having to tell people the consequence for going AD.

AD only exeeds were there is low armor, low chance of dodge, and you need to get in more then one hit. decieve can be dodged wich will mess up your whole attack, and in order to get enough damage with AD in you need to be in melee auto attacking, how is auto attacking skilled and aren't you vurnerable to attack.

I already told someone why I chose abyssal over lichbane, because it gives me the magic pen I need, magic resist against other harmfull spells and decent ap gain.
its great that you can deal massive decieve damage with lichbane, but you aren't safe in melee, and your magic damage is reduced do to low magic pen.

And by your AD dps count, my ap damage still does more. do I have to go over this again?
Shiv 700+ hallucinate 1200+ jitbs 300(each), both spells cannot be dodged and go straight to hp not reduced by magic resist(were as your attacks are reduced by half due to 100+ armor and occaisonaly dodged)
3jitbs x300x5=4500damage.
Enronthegreat laughed at this kind of damage because hes never played against pros that can manage this kind of jitb damage.
if 3jibs deal 4500, lets try 5 assuming this time each one only gets 4 hits in total.
5x300x4=6000damage.
most of AP's damage is burst, and strategic jitb placing.


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Stimraug

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Senior Member

12-28-2009

I think T0ggle's guide works better than AD if just executed well.

However, I've been playing AD Shaco for fun for a few days now. Just wanted you to know that I critted 1473 damage with deceive on Sion (endgame) yesterday xDD Last whisper, inf, etc.. Man that was fun.


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Stimraug

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Senior Member

12-30-2009

T0ggle I wanna share this with you. It's not for AD, just wanted to show you that it really takes skill to play AP Shaco; reason for my better success with AD.

*******http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo59/Thracekat/shacoADownage.jpg********


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panel

Junior Member

01-06-2010

"but I do have nearly 60wins to 3 losses playing as shaco."
i doubt that. you played like a scrub yesterday.

i could write more, how whinny you are, how low your ingame flames are when your losing.

its a big honor to fight your premade, i still cant imagehin how thats even possible with your elo @ 60-3 shaco.

well sorry for ya 4th lose.


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Reivur

Senior Member

01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
It really hurts me that someone would come in here and troll me on my guide because I had a couple of DC's.
Uh... You have 57 of them...


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Jozen

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01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
I already told someone why I chose abyssal over lichbane, because it gives me the magic pen I need, magic resist against other harmfull spells and decent ap gain.
its great that you can deal massive decieve damage with lichbane, but you aren't safe in melee, and your magic damage is reduced do to low magic pen.
Small problem here I wanted to point out. Abyssal Scepter isn't magic pen. Its magic reduction and it only comes via an aura. What this means is that it won't effect remote damage outside of the aura range. So if one(or more) of your jitbs were to fire off on someone not within range of the aura, then its not beneficial at all for dealing with their magic resist. The same if your clone blows up on someone not effected by the aura. As such, its better to have Sorc Boots, Haunting Guise or Void staff over Abyssal Scepter simply because it will effect all of your magic damage regardless of your proximity to the target.


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T0ggle

Member

01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by panel View Post
"but I do have nearly 60wins to 3 losses playing as shaco."
i doubt that. you played like a scrub yesterday.

i could write more, how whinny you are, how low your ingame flames are when your losing.

its a big honor to fight your premade, i still cant imagehin how thats even possible with your elo @ 60-3 shaco.

well sorry for ya 4th lose.
Dude I went 2/1/2 that game and gave up, because my team was stupid as ****.
Your one of the reasons why I don't shaco in pubs anymore, just because i'm a very skilled shaco doesn't mean I can carry my whole team, basicly what your asking of me is to 1v5. Also you didn't face my premade, you faced my Pub.
And why are you even posting here? because your obviously trying to troll me after you talked nonstop **** about me ingame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivur View Post
Uh... You have 57 of them...
I'm sorry did I have 57leaves when I made this guide? no.
Good smartass insult, got anymore flaming to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozen View Post
Small problem here I wanted to point out. Abyssal Scepter isn't magic pen. Its magic reduction and it only comes via an aura. What this means is that it won't effect remote damage outside of the aura range. So if one(or more) of your jitbs were to fire off on someone not within range of the aura, then its not beneficial at all for dealing with their magic resist. The same if your clone blows up on someone not effected by the aura. As such, its better to have Sorc Boots, Haunting Guise or Void staff over Abyssal Scepter simply because it will effect all of your magic damage regardless of your proximity to the target.
You think you understand abyssal scepter and jitbs but you don't.
Jitbs deal physical damage, so it wouldn't matter if I had the aura near them, and the aura is far enough for the longest shiv.
Also, magic penetration and reductions are the exact same thing, what do they do, both reduce the enemys magic resist down to negatives.
About my clone range, if your clone is to far away he teleports back to you, so i'm always within range to bomb someone with the aura on the enemy.

Do your research next time, there is no problem with my guide or item build, just a problem with your knowledge.


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Jozen

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01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
You think you understand abyssal scepter and jitbs but you don't.
Jitbs deal physical damage, so it wouldn't matter if I had the aura near them, and the aura is far enough for the longest shiv.
Also, magic penetration and reductions are the exact same thing, what do they do, both reduce the enemys magic resist down to negatives.
About my clone range, if your clone is to far away he teleports back to you, so i'm always within range to bomb someone with the aura on the enemy.

Do your research next time, there is no problem with my guide or item build, just a problem with your knowledge.
I went and did my research just to make sure I wasn't crazy. jitbs do magical damage. Go test it yourself in a practice game vs an ancient golem. Ancient golem has negative magical resist. You'll notice that your jitb does more damage vs ancient golem because of this. Where as if your jitb did physical damage, it would do less damage vs ancient golem due to his armor.

You can also do the same test with magic pen and magic reduction. Magic pen can't take someone negative and has no effect on targets with negative magic resist. This can be easily tested with Eve's Ravage and a haunting guise. Attack Ancient Golem with hate spike, record the damage. Buy a haunting guise, attack ancient golem with hate spike, you'll see the same damage. Then go behind ancient golem and ravage him to reduce his magic resist even farther negative and hate spike him, you'll see increased damage.


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T0ggle

Member

01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozen View Post
I went and did my research just to make sure I wasn't crazy. jitbs do magical damage. Go test it yourself in a practice game vs an ancient golem. Ancient golem has negative magical resist. You'll notice that your jitb does more damage vs ancient golem because of this. Where as if your jitb did physical damage, it would do less damage vs ancient golem due to his armor.

You can also do the same test with magic pen and magic reduction. Magic pen can't take someone negative and has no effect on targets with negative magic resist. This can be easily tested with Eve's Ravage and a haunting guise. Attack Ancient Golem with hate spike, record the damage. Buy a haunting guise, attack ancient golem with hate spike, you'll see the same damage. Then go behind ancient golem and ravage him to reduce his magic resist even farther negative and hate spike him, you'll see increased damage.
Its common sense that jitbs deal AD, I've asked the admins before quite awhile ago.
So why are you posting bull****?

and no i'm not testing magic pen vers reduction, i've tested my guide through thick and thin, over and over, so many times. I know abyssal scepter is better then void staff because in a premade with only 2 apers(1being you) they rarely ever get over 60magic resist.

And who rated you +2? you get your buddys to do that or did you create 2 fake accounts to do it.
I consider this an attack on my guide, because your not only posting bull**** but calling out my item build as a problem. if you got a problem go make your own guide, stop trolling mine.

Here is proof that everything you just said is total BULL****.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=23110
customer support team clears it for you, good day to you my good chum.


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Jozen

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01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
Its common sense that jitbs deal AD, I've asked the admins before quite awhile ago.
So why are you posting bull****?

and no i'm not testing magic pen vers reduction, i've tested my guide through thick and thin, over and over, so many times. I know abyssal scepter is better then void staff because in a premade with only 2 apers(1being you) they rarely ever get over 60magic resist.

And who rated you +2? you get your buddys to do that or did you create 2 fake accounts to do it.
I consider this an attack on my guide, because your not only posting bull**** but calling out my item build as a problem. if you got a problem go make your own guide, stop trolling mine.

Here is proof that everything you just said is total BULL****.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=23110
customer support team clears it for you, good day to you my good chum.
All that is. is Jesse Perring saying "(I believe)". As in "I am not 100% sure". Its cool, you don't need to believe me. All you have to do is go and take 5 minutes of your time and test it vs Ancient Golem. You'll see that jitb does increased damage to Ancient Golem due to negative magic resist.

I'm not trying to attack your guide or you. I'm simply trying to clear up some misinformation that is being passed off here. You however seem to be too stubborn to even go test this and just went to attempt to insult me. I just hope people will read this and make sure to test it for themselves so they know what's correct.