What's this backdoor?

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WolchBot

Junior Member

12-30-2009

I had one match where I was playing as Nidalee, the other teams carry was a Yi. I think I ended up 22/8 or so and he was 16/10 or so, basically I was better than he was 1 one 1 none of the other heroes on either team were doing too well, however towards the end 4 of their heroes were pushing mid and we were all defending. Yi went and soloed the bottom turret which I wasn't paying attention to, ultimately that lead to them winning, I did not cry about it, I congratulated him for outmaneuvering me. Sure I wasn't happy but it was my own fault for not having the map awareness to counter him.


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Skeith

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Member

12-30-2009

Say that they need to pick Fortify + Teleport =/

And say that isn't your fault if the game lets you backdoor. It's just a tactic that can make you win a game. And it can be countered. (Even though, when Twitch backdoor with that ridiculous range you can get mad, a champion that can attack a tower and can't get attacked by it its just ridiculous.


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BobiusMaximus

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12-30-2009

I'm gonna quote David Sirlin's playing to win here:

Quote:
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw


I think this pretty much sums up everything there is to say on the matter.


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MBirk

Senior Member

12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobiusMaximus View Post
I'm gonna quote David Sirlin's playing to win here:



http://www.sirlin.net/ptw


I think this pretty much sums up everything there is to say on the matter.
Except the fundamental flaw is this assumes that the tables are even. They are not.
So complaining about it, so the game is balance is perfectly valid.
Chess took centuries to work out the current rules.

The game can be refined to allow better and more complex strategies and counters.


Also, games don't know winning or loosing. they know fun. sports know rules of honor and cheapness.
If its not fun, its not a game.
Sports by definition have codes of conduct. Can you spit in your opponents face while playing sf in a competition? There is no "rule" against it. Hell, a great many tactics/characters/etc are banned in tournaments in many games because they aren't fair.

Sirlin is a moron.


Anyway, backdooring isn't an issue with you, its an issue with the game. certain characters ability to solo towers while others require 2-3 characters and a meat shield is a bit poorly designed, and should be addressed.
If it happens to you, relax. It happens. People like to play to win. It is a game, so have fun and don't worry about it so much.


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Zorkdork

Junior Member

12-30-2009

I'm kind of a subscriber of the "if its in the game then it's not cheap" philosophy, not that the game is perfectly balanced or anything but I'm sure if it breaks the game too much then Riot will patch it out eventually.


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DontMashMe

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Senior Member

12-30-2009

Here we go again with backdooring in LoL and DoTA.

Backdooring is a strategy and it is legit, well in most leagues. Everyone in DoTA hated backdoors, well maybe just the pubs because none of them carried TPs.

In this case you would most likely get the skill fortify and teleport, backdooring will be no problem.


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BobiusMaximus

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12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
Also, games don't know winning or loosing. they know fun.
Show me where the fun meter is displayed on the League Of Legends Interface screen at the end of the game.

As far as I'm aware we're told the items, number of minion kills and number of champion kills/assists. Nowhere does it say "Player X lost but had more fun than Player Y"


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ichaserabbits

Junior Member

12-30-2009

I don't know why people complain about that sooooo much
just be aware of the map
if you see someone eating up your tower blue pill back and chase them off
People only complain about it because they have no map awareness and don't pay attention


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MBirk

Senior Member

12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobiusMaximus View Post
Show me where the fun meter is displayed on the League Of Legends Interface screen at the end of the game.

As far as I'm aware we're told the items, number of minion kills and number of champion kills/assists. Nowhere does it say "Player X lost but had more fun than Player Y"
The fun meter is if you are playing it or not.
Why would you play it if it wasn't fun? You sure aren't being paid to, are you?
If its not fun, you stop playing. Wins or losses mean nothing to someone that stops playing an unfun game.

Do you think ANYONE cares about your win/loss record? lol. You may find having a good win/loss record fun. And thats ok too. But the record isn't the effect, its the cause.


But to go back on point,
Backdooring is fine. it is part of the game. however, it is a weakness of the design. Backdooring limits creativity and strategy, it does not expand it. That's a poor design choice.
There is nothing wrong with players taking advantage of the tactic, but Riot should be looking into ways to make the game more dynamic.


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BobiusMaximus

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12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
The fun meter is if you are playing it or not.
Why would you play it if it wasn't fun? You sure aren't being paid to, are you?
If its not fun, you stop playing. Wins or losses mean nothing to someone that stops playing an unfun game.

Do you think ANYONE cares about your win/loss record? lol. You may find having a good win/loss record fun. And thats ok too. But the record isn't the effect, its the cause.


But to go back on point,
Backdooring is fine. it is part of the game. however, it is a weakness of the design. Backdooring limits creativity and strategy, it does not expand it. That's a poor design choice.
There is nothing wrong with players taking advantage of the tactic, but Riot should be looking into ways to make the game more dynamic.
Winning is fun. To you playing "fair" and not being "cheap" might be fun, but if you've played anything at a remotely competitive level, you'll know that winning is far more fun than sticking to an arbitrary set of rules that weren't defined in the first place.

How does backdooring limit creativity and strategy?

You need to create the opportunity to back door by working with your team. They must occupy the enemy team at 4v5 to give you the opportunity to back door. Surely there are many creative ways to do so?