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Does Shaco's Deceive crit scale with crit damage?

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TheSneaker

Senior Member

08-31-2012

I played shaco ranked profesionally, but not after the 60 second box nerf =P Remember when he always got banned =D like in oct 2011-jan 2012 or was it 2010-2011


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TheSneaker

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
TheSneaker:
I played shaco ranked profesionally, but not after the 60 second box nerf =P Remember when he always got banned =D like in oct 2011-jan 2012 or was it 2010-2011


It counts as a insta cit but with 20% added on and with IE and crit damage runes + maxed out Q it can range up to 360%-400% + with trinity thats out of this world 1 hit ko sona damage =P


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TheOneMillion

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
TheSneaker:
It counts as a insta cit but with 20% added on and with IE and crit damage runes + maxed out Q it can range up to 360%-400% + with trinity thats out of this world 1 hit ko sona damage =P


No it doesnt. Stop spewing nonsense and go read the tooltip. It does 140% damage crit at rank one, instead of a 100% damage NORMAL hit. IE brings it up to a 190% damage crit, if decieve is rank one. Normal Crits (as in not from deceive) crit for 200%. Even with IE, rank one decieve still does less than a normal crit without IE. And trinity forces damage bonus does NOT get multiplied by crits. Only added after the crit is calculated.

I assume you also think trinity force straight up takes all your AD and increases it to 250% too?


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TheSneaker

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Right from wiki Extra Critical Strike Damage: 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 %

(Active): Shaco instantly blinks to a target nearby location and enters stealth for up to 3.5 seconds. His next auto-attack while stealthed is guaranteed to critically strike with extra bonus damage.
Cooldown: 11 seconds after exiting stealth
Range: 500

*******http://i47.tinypic.com/s2fhck.png********

Now leave me alone trolls i just had to play a game to prove you wrong, gah so annoying now a days


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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
TheSneaker:
Right from wiki Extra Critical Strike Damage: 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 %

(Active): Shaco instantly blinks to a target nearby location and enters stealth for up to 3.5 seconds. His next auto-attack while stealthed is guaranteed to critically strike with extra bonus damage.
Cooldown: 11 seconds after exiting stealth
Range: 500

*******http://i47.tinypic.com/s2fhck.png********

Now leave me alone trolls i just had to play a game to prove you wrong, gah so annoying now a days


First of all: winning a game with Shaco proves....absolutely nothing.

Second of all, read these following wiki entries, please. And learn things from people who have extensively tested this stuff.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shaco_the_Demon_Jester/Ability_Details - Read the bit about Decieve. Notice how it backs up what we've been telling you.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sheen - Read the info where it goes indepth about the proc. Notice that it a) doesn't care what items you have and b) doesn't crit.


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TheSneaker

Senior Member

08-31-2012

I am a vetern, and i played since the start of 2010 , i know what a sheen proc does and how it works, but you guys are just not under standing me, i used to play him in almost every ranked game and when i got a trinity force it was a 1 hit ko to her because i dealt over 1.4k + damage now lets count this up what items i had

I had over 330-400 AD with a Bt Ie and Trinity force and other items, then there were old masteries, which focused on different things, but still with my decive and tri froce, it doesnt add on to my crit it adds on to my next attack which still adds over 600 damage + my 300% crit damage attack which is a nice number over 1.8k damage with just decive counting they have armour so about 1.4k


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Ouroborous HD

Recruiter

09-01-2012

Quote:
TheSneaker:
Your obvoiusly an idiotic troll, Crit damage runes will give you 50% crit DAMAGE, decive alone is 220% at level 1, now imagine this 220+50% = 270% extra damage level 1, Arm pent runes are late game, now please stop trolling and being a ******. Arm pent runes are worthless for shaco, and trust me i got exp from a friend whos @ 1600-1700 elo with an ap shaco and me who played shaco maybe 10x longer then you ever did since i started right after the beta


this guy is an idiot so plz to god dont listen to anything he says. for one he doesnt even know that shaco's deceive gives 220% crit damage when its maxed out. two i checked his youtube video and honestly i could faceroll him ADC sona, thats how bad he is.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-01-2012

Honestly, if you're building Infinity Edge on Shaco and maxing Q first for ganks, then critical strike damage runes ARE early game runes.

At level 1 Deceive, the attack will be a 120% critical strike (not the normal 200%). With a full rune page of critical strike, that's 170% damage instead. So the critical strike rune page makes a rank one Deceive hit 41.6% harder (170/120).

At level 5 Deceive, with Infinity Edge, the attack will be a 270% critical strike (again, not the normal 200%). With a full rune page for critical strike damage, that ends up being 320% damage instead. The 50% extra critical strike damage only adds 18.5% damage.

So, with Deceive rank 5 and an infinity edge built, critical strike damage runes are less than half as effective for Shaco's deceive than they are at rank 1 deceive and no infinity edge built.


But don't get confused. I'm not making an argument for or against actually taking this rune page on Shaco, no matter your role. I just wanted to clarify the maths regarding the critical strike runes. Honestly though, no matter what runes you go with, they're all easily itemized for in match. Very easily.

For example, you could roll with nine Attack Damage marks. Tier 3 attack damage marks provide 0.95 attack damage each. That's 8.55 attack damage if you put nine attack damage marks in your page. Long Sword, 415 gold, provides 10 attack damage, and so does Doran's Blade (with other great stats too).

Now, I'm not saying AD marks are bad, however they're pretty easy to itemize for. Critical damage is more difficult to itemize for, as it's only available on Infinity Edge. Moreover, 8.55 attack damage is a lot early game, but late game, it's not noticeable. However, as your autoattacks do increasing damage, your normal critical strikes get larger and larger as the game goes on. In this regard, Critical Strike Damage runes will actually scale with your champion.

Another available rune that's difficult to itemize for (not as difficult as critical damage, but difficult) is movement speed. You can get 4.5% movement speed from quints. Where can you itemize for this? Boots? Okay, but everyone builds boots, so you don't really get an advantage from boots, you just stay even. Phantom Dancer, Force of Nature, Lich Bane? Maybe a few other items? And it can be hard to work these items in on some champions.


EDIT: I wanted to redo the maths to account for the Lethality mastery, in which case, Rank 1 Deceive would do 130% damage without the runes, and 180% with the runes. In this case, the runes account for an extra 38.5% damage. At rank 5 deceive with infinity edge, it's 280% versus 330%. In this case, the runes would account for an extra 17.9% damage.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

09-01-2012

Quote:
PogoPogoPogoPogo:
Honestly, if you're building Infinity Edge on Shaco and maxing Q first for ganks, then critical strike damage runes ARE early game runes.


Again, the reason why crit damage runes are bad is that they ONLY WORK ON CRITS.

When you gank with Shaco you don't simply hit them one time and walk away after tossing a Shiv do you? No, you hit them more than once. Decieve is not an adequate steroid to base your entire build around. It's just bonus damage. That one single crit is not enough to justify using the runes. Because all the other noncrits you're going to get are going to be much weaker than if you'd used something else. Your jungle clear speed will also be severely impacted since crit damage is useless for you in there and you're giving up armor and the like.

Once you have an IE and a trinity or dancer? Sure, now they're actually useful since you crit enough to actually get a dps increase. But it takes some seriously flawed logic to fool yourself into thinking it's sufficiently worth it early game. Building your rune page for a late game you may not even get is a really bad idea.

So once again - crit damage runes are a newbie trap. For the sole reason that you don't crit early game. The ONLY champion who can make a vague argument for it is Tryndamere (since he has up to 35% crit innately based on his fury bar), but even he's better off running something else.

edit - yes, I know you said that you don't necessarily advocate taking them, but I really don't want to see people encouraging others to waste their IP on the things, even inadvertantly <_<


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

09-01-2012

Quote:
Cenerae:
So once again - crit damage runes are a newbie trap. For the sole reason that you don't crit early game.

Actually, this is a really good point that kind of goes overlooked. (I wasn't really thinking about it.)

Everything I said is still accurate, but again (as you edited), I don't think Crit damage runes should be used (except maybe on Tryndamere).

Honestly though, for junglers, I suggest the attack speed marks. Attack speed is good early, synergizes well with Madred's Razors (and its upgrades), and also scales better into late game then the armor pen or attack damage you can get from marks.


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