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Jayce - Why Triforce?

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Warrrrax

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Ive noticed EVERY single solomid guide for Jayce has Triforce as a core item. I just don't understand why this is.

I realize that Triforce is extremely strong and cost effective, especially since they keep nerfing other items (PD speed nerf, wits end, etc).

Jayce is a physical burst caster, much like Riven or Pantheon. Yet, you don't see then running around with triforce, because of their very strong AD ratios.

Jayce is the same way though. Qball has a 1.2/1.68 ratio. Hypercharge has 2.1 to 3.9 (rank 5). Gapcloser and knockback have 1.0 each.
These are quite competitive with Pantheon (1.4 spear, 3.some triplepoke, none on leap/ult) and Riven(who actually DOES stagger autoattacks with Q procs).

Jayce also likes to chain his comboes together as much and as quickly as possible.

When you look at Triforce, there are several suboptimal properties for Jayce. Tri is so good that some inefficiency is not a big deal, but...
a) Attack speed is almost totally unused. He never multi-autoattacks except with hypercharge up.
b) AP is completely worthless, used only for the bad aura of his.
c) slow proc is not really needed so much since he already has build in slow and speedups and his final hit is a freaking knockback.
d) He tends to use all his skills in 1 big combo, not space them out. They have fairly long CDs too. Panth would work lots better with Triforce in this regard even.
e) Triforce has no effect if he is Poking with Qball, or knocking back the enemy as fast as possible (vs using q or w first, then autoattack, then knockback). Delaying for an autoattack isn't really ideally his style.
f) His base AD isnt all that great so sheen effect is a bit weaker than normal.
g) Movespeed is great on everyone, but Jayce is already pretty mobile and isn't in dire need of MS.


I would really think that people would want to go with true defensive items to toughen him up as much as needed, then take bloodthirster(s), brutalizers, hexdrinker, etc which would improve all aspects of his damage. Or even Inf Edge which hugely multiplies his Hypercharge damage while still giving efficient AD.
Basically why isn't he built like other AD casters such as Panth?


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t3hep1cf47m4n

Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
much like Riven or Pantheon.


look at nasus and jax instead.

now look at jayce.

now look at the spell they all have in common.

if you can't:

figure out which spell it is
or
can't figure out why they get it

please uninstall.


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TheSneaker

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Look, his q on hammer time procs the trinity, you attack once, turn on ur w and knock him out the other way now change to your cannon and you got its passive and his w, now hes almost dead and e and q al together 3 procs with an extra 450-500 damage output, by just spamming moves


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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-30-2012

It gives Jayce some of everything he needs.

His AD scaling is good and all, but a Bloodthirster doesn't help him chase people down or stick to targets. And given he has so many different skills to hit, he can proc the trinity reliably for about as much damage as he'd be getting from a bloodthirster anyway.


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acosn

Senior Member

08-30-2012

The way characters are meant to be played isn't dictated by their ratios and stats.

Even with AP ratios Trist and Ashe aren't AP characters.

Even with a low CD ult, Corki doesn't necessarily want Trinity Force.

Nasus doesn't necessarily want to rush it either. Most good guides will tell you its more important to buy into an item like Glacial to farm out your Q first.


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Warrrrax

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
Cenerae:
It gives Jayce some of everything he needs.

His AD scaling is good and all, but a Bloodthirster doesn't help him chase people down or stick to targets. And given he has so many different skills to hit, he can proc the trinity reliably for about as much damage as he'd be getting from a bloodthirster anyway.


Maybe that is the case, but it seems to give him a lot of stuff that he DOESNT really need all that much. A single Bloodthirster will add 168 Qball damage, 100 gapcloser, 390 hypercharge, 100 knockback, plus the 100 to any autoattack that he squeezes in.

He has a lot of skills, but tends to use them in 1 chain. i.e. gate,Qball, autoattack with hypercharge (1st triforce proc), immediate hammerform, Gapcloser, Knockback into wall or for the kill.
Thats 1.68 + 3.9 +1.0 +1.0 = 7.6 AD ratio for that 1 sequence which all happens in under 2 seconds ideally. Or 760 dmg from a bloodthirster, vs 150 from a triforce proc.
I guess he CAN use his aura and his hypercharge as 'sheen proccers' but it seems wasteful.

He's already pretty fast with Gate,shapeshift and has one of the best pokes around. They kind of have to come to him or get poked to death. Hes got a good gapcloser and a slow.

A giants belt and bloodthirster is similar cost, gives more defense and quite a bit more offense and a ton of sustain.

I fully admit that I mostly play Dominion and have that mindset, so there very well probably are great reasons for triforce. I'm just not seeing them yet. Its not BAD, just seems less optimal. Maybe if you were playing Jayce as really really tanky and triforce was your only offensive item. In which case I can see him slow-rolling his skills for reliable triProcs.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
Warrrrax:
Maybe that is the case, but it seems to give him a lot of stuff that he DOESNT really need all that much. A single Bloodthirster will add 168 Qball damage, 100 gapcloser, 390 hypercharge, 100 knockback, plus the 100 to any autoattack that he squeezes in.

He has a lot of skills, but tends to use them in 1 chain. i.e. gate,Qball, autoattack with hypercharge (1st triforce proc), immediate hammerform, Gapcloser, Knockback into wall or for the kill.
Thats 1.68 + 3.9 +1.0 +1.0 = 7.6 AD ratio for that 1 sequence which all happens in under 2 seconds ideally. Or 760 dmg from a bloodthirster, vs 150 from a triforce proc.
I guess he CAN use his aura and his hypercharge as 'sheen proccers' but it seems wasteful.

He's already pretty fast with Gate,shapeshift and has one of the best pokes around. They kind of have to come to him or get poked to death. Hes got a good gapcloser and a slow.

A giants belt and bloodthirster is similar cost, gives more defense and quite a bit more offense and a ton of sustain.

I fully admit that I mostly play Dominion and have that mindset, so there very well probably are great reasons for triforce. I'm just not seeing them yet. Its not BAD, just seems less optimal. Maybe if you were playing Jayce as really really tanky and triforce was your only offensive item. In which case I can see him slow-rolling his skills for reliable triProcs.


Sure, if you're playing Jayce as a poker and more of a outlying skirmisher, bloodthirster will probably be better. Most people are using him as a bruiser, and he gets far more out of a trinity (due to the movement speed and slow) than he does a bloodthirster in that role.

It's the nice thing about Jayce. He's flexible and has a lot of item build paths. It's entirely possible that Trinity isn't the best item - I don't think anyone's really found 'The' build for him yet. But it's certainly strong for him.


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Warrrrax

Senior Member

08-31-2012

I do appreciate the responses given and am not trying to argue just for the hell of it. Well, all responses except the retarded one up top. ;-)

To restate my logic in a more concise way:

Panth,Riven are bursty physical casters.
They build AD and not triforce.
They CAN make use of triforce but its not optimum.

Jayce is a bursty physical caster.
He gets a bit less overall use out of triforce than Panth/Riven would.
Hence, I would think that he would want to build AD like they do.


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t3hep1cf47m4n

Member

08-31-2012

gotta love how scrubs make fun of things they don't understand.

it's ok baddy, you're just a troll no one takes you seriously anyway.


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Fat Mchugelarge

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
t3hep1cf47m4n:
gotta love how scrubs make fun of things they don't understand.

it's ok baddy, you're just a troll no one takes you seriously anyway.


While I disagree with him, I think you shut up. If you have nothing productive to say, then keep out of the topic. This topic has been been civil so far.


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