If Viktor is supposed to be evil...

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LastTestament

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Senior Member

09-01-2012

Victor is not evil so much as he is mechanically logically
think 2001 and HAL
It's logical to wipe out what is perceived as out of date or update it.

Victor sees humans as out of date and wishes to update them for now he is making that process a willing one but it doesn't mean he doesn't see humans the same way we see an Apple 2


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

09-01-2012

Well, all of nature wipes out whatever is out of date. Nothing is more merciless and ruthless than mother nature herself. Species go extinct, with or without the aid of humans pushing them in that direction. Whatever doesn't adapt, dies.

As with nations, whoever's military is the strongest gets to write history. Ethics and morals are decided by the winner, and the loser holds no valid opinion in the matter. It doesn't matter if the dying group was a peaceful bunch of pacifists that never did anything to harm anyone or deserve such a fate. They were slaughtered like cattle. And if the winning nation so desires, they can paint these pacifists in the history books as bloodthirsty savages, or as whatever undesireable image would discredit their legacy - if they're not erased from the history books entirely.

Adapt or be removed is the way of the universe. And adapting may not even be possible in many cases.


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LastTestament

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09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
Well, all of nature wipes out whatever is out of date. Nothing is more merciless and ruthless than mother nature herself. Species go extinct, with or without the aid of humans pushing them in that direction. Whatever doesn't adapt, dies.

As with nations, whoever's military is the strongest gets to write history. Ethics and morals are decided by the winner, and the loser holds no valid opinion in the matter. It doesn't matter if the dying group was a peaceful bunch of pacifists that never did anything to harm anyone or deserve such a fate. They were slaughtered like cattle. And if the winning nation so desires, they can paint these pacifists in the history books as bloodthirsty savages, or as whatever undesireable image would discredit their legacy - if they're not erased from the history books entirely.

Adapt or be removed is the way of the universe. And adapting may not even be possible in many cases.

Saying evil is a subjective term is more like saying Gollum was always malicious in his heart.
we have no evidence that he was so we assume that the worldly view we impose on humans works for hobbits IE. everyone must have a evil bone to commit evil. It's the Judical standard.

except in LOTR it doesn't work nor does it work here. Victor operates in a world ravaged by the failures of man. To him the Glorious evolution is a saving grace. Morality as we view it does not apply the same ways in ether extreme


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastTestament View Post
Saying evil is a subjective term is more like saying Gollum was always malicious in his heart.
we have no evidence that he was so we assume that the worldly view we impose on humans works for hobbits IE. everyone must have a evil bone to commit evil. It's the Judical standard.

except in LOTR it doesn't work nor does it work here. Victor operates in a world ravaged by the failures of man. To him the Glorious evolution is a saving grace. Morality as we view it does not apply the same ways in ether extreme
That's my point. The reality is that things are all shades of grey, making "evil" up for debate... be it on Earth or on Runeterra.


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LastTestament

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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
That's my point. The reality is that things are all shades of grey, making "evil" up for debate... be it on Earth or on Runeterra.

that may be so but it's not how we judge historically figures. Hitler will always be evil regardless of his initial motivations of a young LT embarrassed by his nation's downfall (note: never said what he did was right by any means but is his story just a man being evil or cause and effect misdirected anger )

Ho Chi Mihn: evil or liberator? you could make a case for both but in history he will go down as the latter

Now under this definition is Victor evil? Not yet but he's tipping on the peak


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

09-02-2012

But, whoever wins gets to write the history book, essentially their autobiography. = P

hitler, had WW2 been won for him, would be a saint as far as anyone today would know. Our great leader and founder who cleansed our race of impurities for the greater good of humankind.

Just like how the history books have been edited / written in a biased manner, sooooo many times. ^.^


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LastTestament

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09-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
But, whoever wins gets to write the history book, essentially their autobiography. = P

hitler, had WW2 been won for him, would be a saint as far as anyone today would know. Our great leader and founder who cleansed our race of impurities for the greater good of humankind.

Just like how the history books have been edited / written in a biased manner, sooooo many times. ^.^

Only culturally, Ho chi Mihn is only a hero to some regional people


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

09-03-2012

Eh, give it a couple generations and some strict indoctorination like in north korea. Shut off their ability to gain any internet access or access to outside news, indoctorinate their kids into believing their leader is a god, and they'll think it's true. Did you know Kim Jong II invented the meat-and-bread "hamburger"?


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LastTestament

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09-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
Eh, give it a couple generations and some strict indoctorination like in north korea. Shut off their ability to gain any internet access or access to outside news, indoctorinate their kids into believing their leader is a god, and they'll think it's true. Did you know Kim Jong II invented the meat-and-bread "hamburger"?

even with internet The french Occupation of Vietnam doesn't seem too "good"


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Baron Bodacious

Senior Member

09-06-2012

The problem I've been seeing in this thread is a pretty common problem I've seen with people who don't have a very strong grasp of morality.

Someone said Hitler would be evil even if he won (or something along those lines). That's not the case at all "evil" and "good" are all culturally held beliefs that the majority imposes on people. It seems that many people here have a westernized moral code (as i have myself). But let's look at Mundo. Someone quoted that he was a serial killer and could hardly be called a scientist. Is that is just how science is in a given place and it's accepted by all, how is it evil? If no one at all thinks something is bad, how can it be?

Evil and good are fictional concepts made up by humans to justify certain actions. You say Joe is a good person taking evil actions? How is that possible? You cant have your cake and eat it too.