If Viktor is supposed to be evil...

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Urbaknight

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
Very well.


If you're a child soldier in parts of africa (and they're not confined just to africa for the record) and you're one of those people forced to partake in acts of violence through no choice of your own (and this can happen to kids barely old enough to hold a gun, child soldiers can be, for example, age 5-15, most of the warlords in certain areas of the world arn't too picky about your exact age) often times you will be exposed to the amoral parts of warfare (that are kept out of the media eye).

For example, suppose you had to kill everyone in a village because your enemy's forces are going to take the village soon and you need to pull out - so you must of course kill all the villagers to prevent them from growing crops / producing food / giving medical aid and lodging to your enemy. This is often coupled with burning down the buildings once all the villagers are killed. In this scenario, did you know that you can save lots of ammunition by rounding up all the villagers, making them dig a large pit, and burying them all alive?

Saves a lot of bullets if your people are short on supplies - and in a lot of the more wartorn areas of the world, good luck going in and out of that span of your life well fed.

A lot of people wind up with starvation-based dwarfism. Food is precious in a combat area when you did not have the good fortune to be part of one of the major military world powers.

The more benevolent warlords will often offer a carrot or stick approach. Hey, you're a kid, you're coming to fight for us, and if you do, you and your family get food. Your family will be safe and sound... all you have to do is carry this rifle and do what we tell you.

When you are placed in that position, it will not matter how many innocent people you kill, villages you burn, etc. Through your actions, your family can remain safe and fed. At that point, you are the good guy. It doesn't matter how many villagers you've shot, buried alive, tortured for information despite high probability that they know nothing... you're the good guy.

Especially for children, let's say... Joe. Joe is a seven year old boy. Joe was drafted to fight. If Joe deserts his comrades (goes absent without leave) and tries to escape his position, his family will be killed. If he does not desert, his family will be fed - as will he. For the most part, anyway.

All Joe has to do is give his loyalty.

Joe, showing gigantic aptitude at leadership, firmly holding the belief that he is the "good guy" as all of his actions keep his family safe. And he is, after his 12th birthday, (This would be around his fifth year of service) educated on how to write and read, and is given a position of control over a small group of soldiers. Joe has shot a few dozen people in battle, and participated in the killing of villagers under his predecessor. But, as with all lifespans in this scenario, his predecessor is killed and needs to be replaced. Joe takes control.

Joe's forces need to pull out of a village before it is taken by their enemy. Joe orders the villagers to be killed and the village burned down. He's done this with... let's say five or six villages in the time he has been in service.

By the standards that the western world likes to apply, Joe is a "war criminal" - but Joe is also 12 year old child.

Furthermore, Joe had no control over his situation... kinda like people who get drafted, but instead of having yourself banned from coming back into the united states for dodging the draft, your family is killed.

As far as Joe knows, Joe is a good guy. Joe protected his family, and protected his soldiers that are loyal to him, as well as their families by proxy. That's all that matters.

Once a year, Joe gets the privlidge of visiting his family - and he does so with a clear conscience, knowing that his siblings and parents are well fed and protected through his actions... as are the families of those who assist him in killing villagers.

In this scenario you are faced with the void of utter ruthlessness. It can traumatize adults, imagine what it does to the mind of a child.

But as far as Joe knows, Joe is the good guy in this story.

Because mommy and daddy are safe. Because little sister was never raped. Because little brother didn't have to fight and see what Joe has seen or do what Joe has done. And because they all have the miracle of food and water. Such a first world convenience to not be starving! Imagine being able to live a little bit like westerners! Actually having food! Isn't that amazing? Our warlord is so very generous that our families get to be fed.

Joe gets to sleep at night with a clear conscience.

Yet, were he an adult, the west would identify him as a clearly evil "War crimminal" - for no reason other than his age.


...so, my point is, evil is up to interpretation. = )
Ok, but you still haven't proven that "evil is a completely relative term". You only proved that sometimes non-evil people can be influenced into doing evil things.


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webbut

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xulsigae View Post
Darn copywrite.
Captain Hammer is just a dude in a t-shirt and Khakis with some gloves on. They could make a skin where he's wearing a blue shirt but that thing on his chest in his normal skin is still poking out his shirt and it has a hammer drawn on it and then just give him Khakis a belt, boots, and those gloves and call it Causal Jayce.

Dr.Horrible is literally just a dude in a fancy lab coat goggles and white boots. That outfit is probably far too generic to be copywritable. They could call that one Viktor the Horrible.


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbaknight View Post
Ok, but you still haven't proven that "evil is a completely relative term". You only proved that sometimes non-evil people can be influenced into doing evil things.
What if the person advances into adulthood, having never left being a child soldier, and he does not percieve any of his actions to have been evil, as they all serve the greater good - keeping his family safe?


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Forgot to mention this earlier -

the point of the example is that it's all about perception. Evil exists in whatever way you percieve it to exist. If you percieve that the ends justify the means, virtually any action can be percieved as not-evil if it leads to a greater good - and that's one circumstance of many potentials. There are certain activities that are influenced by other factors, such as self-interest, but it ultimately comes down to perception.


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Mirth The Bard

Member

08-31-2012

Viktor isn't "evil,", he's a Zaun scientist, one of many, like mundo, who go to great lengths to achieve their goals, not necessarily evil but more along the chaotic scale. They're to Piltover what Noxus is to Demacia, the more chaotic side, which Riot portrays as evil. Another reason Viktor can be viewed as evil is his desire to change natural life, which many would view as bad.


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StarkRavenMad

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirth The Bard View Post
Viktor isn't "evil,", he's a Zaun scientist, one of many, like mundo, who go to great lengths to achieve their goals, not necessarily evil but more along the chaotic scale. They're to Piltover what Noxus is to Demacia, the more chaotic side, which Riot portrays as evil. Another reason Viktor can be viewed as evil is his desire to change natural life, which many would view as bad.
You know, reading this comment reminded me of that Justice League episode, where batman gets captured by the Legion of Doom (or whatever), and he winds up having a heart to heart with Cheetah.


I don't know why that's important, I just feel like talking.


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Urbaknight

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirth The Bard View Post
Viktor isn't "evil,", he's a Zaun scientist, one of many, like mundo, who go to great lengths to achieve their goals, not necessarily evil but more along the chaotic scale. They're to Piltover what Noxus is to Demacia, the more chaotic side, which Riot portrays as evil. Another reason Viktor can be viewed as evil is his desire to change natural life, which many would view as bad.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/champi...madman_of_zaun

Umm, Dr. Mundo is a serial killer and "no one is entirely sure how his butchery qualifies as science." (But I will admit, "he has made tremendous strides in mapping the pain response in the human brain and body, going so far as being able to suppress it, even in the most excruciating of circumstances" and he "has also tapped into the primal parts of the brain through chemistry, learning how to enhance aggression and adrenaline, as well as dulling conscience and the survival instinct").

Other Zaun champs include Singed and Warwick. (Janna and Blitzcrank left Zaun).

Also Zaun and Noxus are allies.

More on Zaun and Mundo:

"Something about Dr. Mundo has captured the collective hearts of a notoriously self-centered city-state."
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...ptember-20-cle


"Zaun Bribery in Kalamanda Exposed"
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...ecember-20-cle


"Zaun Security Supervisor, Rhoman Plath, made a statement soon after:

“Void Cultists are a crock, to be frank. We will be looking into the incident, but sadly, the death of one person is not news here in Zaun. We are in pursuit of Kassadin, seeing as he is the culprit behind the blackout. Unfortunately, as my men have informed me, he is nearly impossible to catch, so we hope he will come forward of his own volition."
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...january-21-cle

"Warehouse in Zaun Revealed to be Corporate Prison"
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...ptember-21-cle


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LordHippoman

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbaknight View Post
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/champi...madman_of_zaun

Umm, Dr. Mundo is a serial killer and "no one is entirely sure how his butchery qualifies as science." (But I will admit, "he has made tremendous strides in mapping the pain response in the human brain and body, going so far as being able to suppress it, even in the most excruciating of circumstances" and he "has also tapped into the primal parts of the brain through chemistry, learning how to enhance aggression and adrenaline, as well as dulling conscience and the survival instinct").

Other Zaun champs include Singed and Warwick. (Janna and Blitzcrank left Zaun).

Also Zaun and Noxus are allies.

More on Zaun and Mundo:

"Something about Dr. Mundo has captured the collective hearts of a notoriously self-centered city-state."
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...ptember-20-cle


"Zaun Bribery in Kalamanda Exposed"
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...ecember-20-cle


"Zaun Security Supervisor, Rhoman Plath, made a statement soon after:

“Void Cultists are a crock, to be frank. We will be looking into the incident, but sadly, the death of one person is not news here in Zaun. We are in pursuit of Kassadin, seeing as he is the culprit behind the blackout. Unfortunately, as my men have informed me, he is nearly impossible to catch, so we hope he will come forward of his own volition."
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...january-21-cle

"Warehouse in Zaun Revealed to be Corporate Prison"
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/...ptember-21-cle
Uh oh. You just called Noxus bad guys.

Flee my friend.

Winter is coming.


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Death of one person is not news here in Zaun?

Hmm. That sounds just like...

China

The United States

Britain

Russia

France

and everywhere else on the planet.

If you die under normal circumstances, if you are not a particularly important person, your death notice is confined to a small obituary in a newspaper - and sometimes not even that. Noteriety for your funeral is obtained if you are somehow percieved by the large population as important.

If your death is a story the media can pounce on for views and sales, maybe you will obtain a buzz for a few days. Maybe.

That's about it. Either way, nowhere in the real world is the death of one -ordinary- person considered noteworthy.

For example, as I'm typing this, people are dying in Syria.

And, if things are still going on as they were when I was last remotely involved and bothered to keep track, probably also in Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone, the russian/khazak border...

havn't bothered keeping up to date on developments in bosnia (sp?), the balkans, somalia, DRC. Pretty sure the balkans stopped though, but whatever. Havn't checked on some of these things in years.

What's the point?

So what if one death isn't news in Zaun... it's not like it's news anywhere else either. = )

as for medical experiments... eh.. maybe I'll talk about those later.


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Zalmeran

Member

09-01-2012

He is not as obvious evil as say, Cho'Gath. But let me quote our favorite robot-man.

"Adapt or be removed."

Surely this can only mean one thing.