Summoner Spells for Dominion?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Helixes

Senior Member

08-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
[Disclaimer: I am not a designer and do not have any context on what makes a mechanic fun or antifun. The following is a personal opinion as a dominion player, and my opinion has absolutely no effect on what the designers do with the Crystal Scar]

I think it's more fun to get a second chance after messing up bottom than it is antifun to have someone revive after you kill them. It would be immensely frustrating if a single play error cost you bottom lane in the early game. It would have drastic effects on how the top fight develops if your teammates have to recap bot before the 450 mark.
I'm pro revive because some champions are simply gay to fight, and a single position mistake often makes you lose against them (urgot anyone?). Revive helps counter anti fun elements of the game and champion mechanics.

I think revive isn't the issue, but the only effective solution to all the issues.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HaIfhearted

Senior Member

08-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterD103 View Post
What about the fact that revive presence bot means that there is way less incentive to gank or even go offensive bot creating stale or at least way more passive 1v1 matches?
You know how in SR simply forcing your opponents flash during a gank is counted as a successful gank if you kept yours, because now your opponent has no escape and is a lot less safe if they get out of position?

In Dom, ganking bot and forcing your opponents revive puts a lot more pressure on them, because now any future deaths they take will almost 100% guarantee the loss of their tower.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

WaterD103

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-28-2012

Justifying something bad in dominion because something bad exist in other gamemode is bad logic. Flash do make Sr more passive. Flash is the reason i basically stopped playing SR.

Also, what if you have the pressure RIGHT ON instead of having to kill them first?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FraggingBard

Senior Member

08-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterD103 View Post
Flash in SR have been taking 10 slots every game and Riot Didn't do much, so clearly Riot isn't against a summoner spell being dominant.

The question is not if Revive is Op or not, but if it makes the gameplay better or worse. I'm in the worse side (Specially for the effects it has on the bot lane)
Most of what the designers have said is that they dislike spells such as Flash being dominant, but since the game is balanced around it then the difficulties in removing it are greater than their current hate for it. Flash tends to result in a power creep where everyone ends up with Flash (since it's such an amazingly useful utilitarian spell), but if there was no Flash then Ezreal would become uncatchable and kiting would be the new meta. Lee Sin, Nidalee, anyone with a mobility (blink) or movement (dash/ms increase) ability would be the only champions picked since they'd have such a huge advantage.

So they don't like it, but they can't just take it out so they're leaving in for the time being and putting it on the ToDo list.

At least, that's what I've read. Think Morello mentioned it in a recent thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterD103 View Post
Flash do make Sr more passive. Flash is the reason i basically stopped playing SR.
Really? It makes the game a lot faster in my experience/opinion. Also the reason I'm playing LoL instead of Dota 2 (and the stupid patch system) even though Dota 2 is a lot less "snowbally". Flash allows me to pull off some really stupid plays that I couldn't otherwise do. Think a Flash/Q/W/E/R to under a persons tower as Malz, or a Flash/E/Q/W/R as Darius. Or a Flash/R as Skarner, Flash is the spell you take when you need to be just a little bit over there right now in order to wrench a person from safety. It does create a more passive laning phase but the mid-late game is a lot faster.

Dom is definitely the faster game because of the mode (less emphasis on farming, although it's still a farm game at it's core), Flash simply makes SR faster. And Revive makes Dom slower, since you can't rush as fast as bot will simply Revive and you need to whittle them down again. You'll also see the same sort of Revive begets Revive power creep going on as not taking Revive will put you at too much of a disadvantage compared to the other players.

Depends how you see things I guess. Anyhoo, carry on


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Reynmaker

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousogreat View Post
So Revive is overpowered. What's the plan to deal with that, Riot? Running 10 Revives sounds REALLY stale.
Revive is on an 8+ minute cooldown, the average Dominion game is around 20 minutes or less, 20-30 for high ELO. Since everyone is not Kamikazeing straight out of the gate, that's barely 2 opportunities to revive per game. Where is the OP in that ?

By comparision, Flash's cooldown is half that, in a much longer game mode.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HaIfhearted

Senior Member

08-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynmaker View Post
Revive is on an 8+ minute cooldown, the average Dominion game is around 20 minutes or less, 20-30 for high ELO. Since everyone is not Kamikazeing straight out of the gate, that's barely 2 opportunities to revive per game. Where is the OP in that ?

By comparision, Flash's cooldown is half that, in a much longer game mode.
If cooldown was the only thing that mattered, Smite and CV would be tied for the strongest summoner spells in the game, and Clarity and Surge would be stronger than Flash/Ignite/Exhaust.

It's not how long you have to wait for a spell that makes it strong, it's the impact of their effects.

In Revives case, a well-used Revive can almost single-handedly win or salvage a game, relieve an immense amount of pressure from your team, and turn losing fights into clear-cut victories.

The sheer power of what Revive lets you do is the reason why people take it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

lbgsloan

Senior Member

08-29-2012

Revive on Dominion is exactly like Flash on SR in the sense that it's an 'arms race' situation. How do you counter someone flashing over a wall on SR? You flash over with them. How do you stop a revive team from auto-winning windmill? Run revive yourself. That is what makes those summoners 'toxic' in their formats; you run them at high level play or you lose. Right now in tournament play you basically see the following every game on a team: 5 revives, 3 garrisons, and 2 exhausts. SR situation is pretty similar with flash/ignite, and one smite of course. There are, what, 14-15 different summoners in the game? And 3-4 see use in high level play on their respective maps? It's 'balanced' in the sense that everyone can run those same summoners, but it's epic failure in regardles to insuring gameplay variation is healthy. Mastery and summoner balance need reviewing more often than once a year Riot.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bunny Killer

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
It would have drastic effects on how the top fight develops if your teammates have to recap bot before the 450 mark.
why is that a problem? without revive the game might have some actual strategy involved like sending 2 bot because capturing the enemies bottom would actually be possible. with revive its not.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HaIfhearted

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NomNomNomCakey View Post
why is that a problem? without revive the game might have some actual strategy involved like sending 2 bot because capturing the enemies bottom would actually be possible. with revive its not.
It's actually *very* possible.

A few tournies ago a team (I think it was either FTV or NMUH) ran a 4 bot opening strat, where they sent a tank to hold their mid, and then dove their opponents bot, killed him, and took his bot point.

If they hadn't team suicided, they would've gotten away with it pretty much for free.

Just cause revive is very powerful doesn't mean it stops you from doing anything and everything.
There is still a lot of room for unconventional strats and whatnot.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Panzerzs

Senior Member

09-02-2012

The Best summoner spells for a well-co-ordinated team imo is Revive and Garrison/Exhaust
The gameplay strategies are more important than the summoner spells. I have beaten teams 1 revive (with me and my team without) vs 5 revives and still won by 200 or so.
Revive allows a second chance, and imo it allows more action - more exciting for me to watch on Tournaments.
Otherwise, Revives cooldown is actually 5min so you can use it prob like 3-4 times in a good game
It's health bonus upgrade makes u more sustainable - good
Spells aren't as important as they are in SR imo as well, but I can start a fight there so it was just my opinion :P