Who are the good guys?

Demanicia are 182 35.14%
Noxian are 74 14.29%
Both are 72 13.90%
Both are EVIL 190 36.68%
Voters: 518. You may not vote on this poll

Demencia and Noxus, which are the good guys and which are the bad?

First Riot Post
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alsowikk

Senior Member

07-04-2011

The way I see it personally, the people have noxus are amoral rather then evil. Simply put they have decided against the use of morality in their decision making process.They are fine with violating the rules of nature by raising the dead(then again...farming isn't exactly a natural occurance).

The demacians to me at least, scuttle growth in favor of unflinching and unquestioning loyalty. To me that's the closer to morally wrong(I won't say evil because demacians believe they are on the moral high ground. to me to be truly evil you need to believe/admit it to yourself. However acts can be evil regardless of the morality of the individual as a whole). They essentially demand unflinching loyalty and aren't against forcing Lux to fight in the league at her age. While the noxians allow choice(even though the gov doesn't use morals the people are free to and they could bring morality when they move up and they have genuine patriotism rather then brainwashing. The demacians are locked in place and to me that's worse then letting the majority decide not to include morality in important decisions.


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Yousosmart

Member

07-04-2011

Good and evil are a matter of perspective. Demacia's crusade-like way of doing things is really unforgiving, and can been seen as somewhat akin to the Christian Crusaders (or whatever) back in the Dark Ages.

Noxus is certainly a society that promotes Darwinism, in that the weak die off to make room for the strong. Not an ideal society, but one that certainly is organized, has a hierarchy, and knows its direction.

Both have their good and bad aspects. It'd be incorrect to call one "all good" or one "all evil"; it hardly ever works like that in politics.


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iPlay Talon

Senior Member

07-04-2011

Demanician?
Noxian?
Demencia?


... -_- Anyways I voted for Noxus.


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Kriegson

Member

07-04-2011

Been told a hundred times over, but what's one more?

Noxus is a more Darwinist and capitalist city state that follows the morality of nature in the most basic sense of survival. Is the alpha wolf evil for taking leadership of the pack by force? Or is it ultimately best for the pack as they now have the strongest leader possible?

Noxus allows individuals to achieve great things or be culled along with the rest of the meek and weak. Due to this I would think that Noxians are likely hardy and cunning people.

Alternatively Demacia is a Utopian civilization with all the problems that realistically incurs, such as a totalitarian regime which enforces its "Perfection" upon the populace whether it likes it or not. Due to this virtually anybody in Demacia has an equal chance to get ahead in life, and few get left behind...but those that stray from the chosen path often end up pariah.

Due to this I think there would be less outstanding individuals within Demacia, as their culture enforces conformity.

A perfect society at the price of freedom. (Demacia)

Freedom at the price of safe society.(Noxus)


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OneDaySlater

Senior Member

07-04-2011

Demacia is light gray, Noxus is dark gray.


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Neciro

Junior Member

07-04-2011

I suppose that a better evaluation of Demacia could be made if we had some better context of their religious text. But even then it would offer only a partial and skewed view of their society.

I would also submit that just because one might not like something doesn't mean that its wrong. Until a criteria is set forth as to what defines good and evil and is accepted by all the parties involved this conversation would appear to be doomed to a cycle of platitudes repeated indefinitely.

Imho


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

07-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakagami0 View Post
The one with a society where Dracoian law flourishes "they adopt seemingly draconian measures", promotes the caste system "Those who seek personal gain at the expense of others quickly find themselves ostracized", forces religion and morals "are expected to share the ideals and virtues of its citizenry", and where the king-- while in a Constitutional Monarchy-- is the "commander-in-chief of its military". A place based on Patriotism, Ideals, and strict military in a "standing invasion force" while having anti one race views (Noxians), now where have we seen this before?

Or the society that is based on Capitalism (yea I said it)"a settlement where the physically and mentally strong acquire power" with Autocratic rule, where people are "always treated every contributing member as fairly as they deserve"(Katarina).

I can't tell tbh.





And where are the Janna pics?
INC real life comparsion - might be a bit opinionated, you've been given a warning:

Neither is perfect, but if I had to select one of the two to live in if suddenly earth was going to blow up and I had to move to runeterra, I would probably pick Noxus as my place of residence.

Demacia is best compared to a totalitarian society... the closest comparisons you have on earth are red china, north korea, and the soviet union. None of those are places anyone will want to live in, regardless of personal greed or charity. No one wants to be forced to behave or think or act in a certain, strictly regulated way, even if they would be nice and benevolent otherwise. Ideologically, I oppose Demacia for that reason.

That said, Noxus isn't a rose garden either. They are the classic capitalist society, much resembling present day America. Laws very heavily favor the wealthy / social elite and offer them more protections than any random individual citizen. Let's be honest, if you live in the United States, or any other country that flaunts "social freedom" (I'm not forgetting about you, Euro guys!) and are an average barber shop owner, there's little you can do if a large business organization or political organization decides to step on you.

These "social freedom" countries often have unions and the like to attempt to protect people that are lower on the food chain, but in my not so humble opinion, they don't really do a good job of it, though they flaunt and exaggerate the good they do and spend sometimes more money advertising that they did something nice than they do actually helping.

At least Noxus is willing to be honest about that rather than pretending to do stuff about it and pandering for public view.

My conclusion: Neither is really all that great a place. They both have significant problems and opposing ideals with no clear right or wrong. Being forced to pick one of the two to live in, I'd probably have to go with Noxus, unless I wound up with nothing but the clothes on my back when the earth explodes - in which case I'd go to Demacia and keep quiet about its faults in the interest of not winding up in prison untill I got up on my feet and could move to Noxus.


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JacobianMatrix

Senior Member

07-05-2011

The problem with demacia is that it gives off big brother overtones, which would make it actually quite a **** place to live. Noxus while not being strictly full of pricks is also a ****storm of a society. The problem is determining which is the lesser of two evils. Life aint perfect in valoran for sure.


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EpicFrogNinja

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Senior Member

07-05-2011

Quote:
I find that every culture present on Valoran has a specific archetype to follow, but thankfully it's not the simple Good/Bad axis.

Zaun, for example represents innovation, development and progress. But these values are driven to the end by lack of regulation, resulting in an anarchic and polluted city, which is nonetheless thriving and innovative.

Bilgewater represents the traditional pirate values. They're independent and self-governing, not caring for "established" policies and instead inventing their own (as for example in poltics).

Bandle City is the Shire of Valoran. Yordles are portrayed as fluffy-friendly creatures, living merrily and without worries, yet we see much less happy sides of such a society, that is forced to cope with the outside world in spite of it's own internal Utopian setting, having to create armed forces and disturbing characters such as Teemo. (I'm quite positive that if left alone, Yordles would just spend the days rolling on meadows and hugging each other a la Teletubbies)

Demacia is a paragon of law, and is vaguely reminiscent of a Roman-style communism. The State is put before the individual, making citizens just "units" forming it. The lawful ideal might pass for good at a first glance (and in fact I am sure most newcomers to Valoran are of the idea that Demacia/Noxus are the Good/Evil axis) but after looking deeper in the culture of the city, one realized that such despotic and draconian measures lead to a benevolent yet martial police state. They do care for the well being of the citizens, but if they stray even a little from the dogmas, they are worthy only of punishment.

Noxus, on the other end, is a dystopian representation of humanity I would say. Initiative, guile and prowess are the values held dear. Compassion and lawfulness are non-existent, since every act of kindness is a possible weakness to be exploited. I think Noxus represents grotesquely the human essence, as the strive for greatness at any cost is the main driving factor here. No moral qualms are taken in consideration, even going as far as denying the permanence of death should it be deemed profitable to the city. It is a place where no needs or desires go unsatiated, for nothing is forbidden here. It's chaotic freedom at the very essence. (even with the militaristic presence of the Noxian High Command)

Ionia carries a Buddhist set of values, teaching nature-love, serenity and calm, though it is forced to take weapons in self-defense. Ionians are peaceful people, emphasizing harmony as the highest value. The harmony of the soul, body and mind is essential for them to achieve peace, and that is what all the lore seems to hint. Even warcraft, such as Wuju or Udyr's style is transposed as inner search and presented gracefully and elegantly, elevating such normally considered belligerent activities to Arts.

Freljord, the last founded nation seems to be focused on acceptance and simple freedom. There is no conflict between species, in fact cooperation and integration is encouraged. No particular laws bind individuals, who just have to live without harming the community. It's simply freedom, no frills attached.

I think the real positive examples would be Ionia and Freljord, as Noxus and Demacia are both grotesque dystopian societies with no balance inside.
You forgot Piltover and the Shadow Isles