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Call for help - Jungling

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RockLobster88

Senior Member

08-24-2012

I need to get some help jungling. I do more than fine in bot games, but as soon as I play in even normal games, I get my ass handed to me. And every time I play jungler, I get reported like hell. I hate the position but I want to be able to learn the position. It's getting so frustrating to get reported every single game I do jungle because some ass called for a gank when I had no mana and half health.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Well, what specific problems are you having? Is it simply that your teammates are calling for ganks while you have low mana and health?

Are you offering ganks at times other than when it is requested?


Right now, I don't really know what your specific problems are so I can't offer any specific tips, but I can make this suggestion. When you open your LoL client and you're at the home page, the top left area of the home page in the client has an option to spectate live ranked matches. I'd suggest watching a match or two (at least the early game) and focusing ONLY on one jungler. Just pick one team or the other, turn the fog of war to only let you see what that team sees, keep your screen locked to that jungler. Watch we he does. I can't promise he'll be the best jungler ever, but he'll more than likely be competent.


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RockLobster88

Senior Member

08-24-2012

I dunno. Start with the basics. I have Warwick, Amumu, Alistair, and Shaco. And without fail, no matter what, I piss people off because I'm not experienced enough.


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TheUnburned

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Learn the spawn timers for different buffs.

For example, Dragon Spawns initially at 2:30 and takes 6 minutes to respawn after being killed.
For Baron it's 15:00 and 7 minutes
Blue and Red are 1:55 and 5 minutes
(memory tool: minor buffs = 5 minutes < dragon = 6 < baron = 7)

Once you've memorized those, you need to remember when a buff is coming back up. The most common way you see junglers do this is by making a note in their teamchat, like "Dragon at 13:52". That way the rest of your team is aware of it too.

Practicing this will give you extremely strong control over buffs and objectives as a jungler, compared to someone who doesn't know the timers. This also applies to counterjungling buffs, but you need to get the hang of doing your own jungle first.

Don't start with a jungler like Amumu, who's extremely susceptible to being counter-jungled. I've heard Warwick is good for starting out, but somebody else could probably suggest a better jungler for beginners.


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Kyzrathnosh

Senior Member

08-24-2012

None of these are really junglers for the aspirant jungle kid. You want to start with someone that has great sustain and isn't Amumu or Alistar, because both, while great junglers, have **** actual speed.

Try it with Renekton, Shyvana, perhaps even Fiora or even Darius (though that last one is iffy..) Learn pacing and when to gank/bait. As a heavy jungle ganker, you become more reliant on your own team's CC ability but the payoff can be greater; you either mop the floor with them, or you're tanky and mobile enough to get again (Renek and Shyv here especially).

Warwick is a GREAT jungler!... who has the durability of a piece of plywood in a forest fire. His damage output is his strength, but his brittleness is a major flaw. You can chase forever, but you melt in 1v2, or even against a good carry who knows placement, juking and positionning. Renek and Shyv are easier because of lack of mana cost and crazy durability (Shyv at 18 has about 180 armor and 170 MR with just her ult and natural stats), but have no real CC (Renek has his stun but it's an on-hit addition, even though it hurts like hell.)

If you want to experiment, I'd suggest you try in custom games with a friend or two with bots on opposing side just to learn how to pace and place.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Quote:
RockLobster88:
I dunno. Start with the basics. I have Warwick, Amumu, Alistair, and Shaco. And without fail, no matter what, I piss people off because I'm not experienced enough.

Okay, focus on Warwick. Of the four you listed, he's the easiest jungler. He's maybe also the worst in terms of you can't do as much to help your team, but it's pretty hard to do anything to hurt your team with Warwick.

Warwick is one of the many junglers that likes to start blue buff. As long as you're level 30 and have the proper runes and masteries, you're more than fine without a leash. So, here's a quick guide to a decent WW game.

Various junglers start with different items. Most start with boots and pots, cloth and pots, or vampiric scepter. On Warwick, I actually prefer to start Long Sword and one health potion. The long sword will build into Madred's Razor and will speed up your clears. WW's passive gives him life steal, so the armor or lifesteal from the other options isn't as important. Anyway, level your W first, then head to the jungle (W gives WW the most level 1 DPS).

Start wolves. You're not going to kill all the wolves. The thing is, wolves spawn before the blue buff, and you can kill some of the wolves and still get to blue buff just as it spawns. This saves you a few seconds. With WW, you can kill the big wolf and I think ONE little wolf and then run to blue buff. This is without a leash. With a leash, you can kill all the wolves.

Anyway, so you kill big wolf, one little wolf, run to blue. Kill the biggest golem first. Use your smite at 500 health, finish off the little dudes, run back finish off wolves.

Check your map. Does anyone need immediate help anywhere? Are any enemies out of position and overextended? If yes, well I'll cover this later. If no, continue farming your jungle.

After you do the blue side of jungle, run across middle lane between the outer and inner turrets. Try staying back in your jungle so the enemy team has no idea where you are. Kill wraiths, starting with the blue wraith. After wraiths, check your smite cooldown. Most of the time, I go from wraiths to golems then come back for the red buff, but if you were slowed down and your smite is about ready, then do red buff then golems.

Check your map again. Does anyone need immediate help anywhere? Are any enemies out of position and overextended? If yes, well I'll cover this later. If no, continue farming your jungle.

Anyway, after fnishing red buff and golems, you should be able to come back and hit respawned wraiths and respawned wolves.

Check your map again. Does anyone need immediate help anywhere? Are any enemies out of position and overextended? If yes, well I'll cover this later. If no, continue farming your jungle.

If at this point no one really needs help and no enemies are in a good position for a gank, you should head to the shop.

Early priorities with WW should be Madred's Razor (increases clear time in jungle) as well as boots. Eventually, you'll want to upgrade to the attack speed boots, but I also think that boots 2/5 are not the worst option for any jungler, at least early game. You can always sell back and get AS boots later.

I would also suggest picking up some wards. Try to find their jungler (without being too risky). If you can figure out his route and timing, you can steal one of their buffs. But you should be trying to feed your blue buff to your mid ASAP, and your red buff can be fed to a teammate as well (but in some cases, it remains best for WW to just keep red himself, depends though).

Starting at level 7, if you've been farming well and have Madred's Razors, you should be able to solo dragon. This is a good way for Warwick to help out. His ganks are the greatest, particularly before level 6. Knowing this, I try to make sure my team has 100% control over Dragon to help us make up for gold another jungler would have made for the team with good ganks.

Once laning phase is over and your team is grouping up for team fights, make sure you're continuing to feed the buffs to your teammates. Consider it your responsibility to watch when the buff is up, pick the player you think will do the most with the buff (usually the AP or AD carries), tell them to come get it. Use your smite and your madred's razors to help them get it ASAP (careful not to take yourself). And then get back with your team and prepare for teamfights.

Skill leveling priority for Warwick looks like this: R > Q > W > E. You should level the first 6 levels like this though: W, Q, Q, E, Q, R.

Sometimes if no one on your team is doing very good, it can be better to level E faster than W, but what's most important for jungle WW is taking W at level 1, and maxing Q first.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

08-24-2012

You still haven't explained what you are doing to "screw up". If you want pointers, you need to be specific.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Ganking.

Part of the problem I'm sure you're running into isn't actually entirely your fault. A lot of laners simply don't understand what they need to do on their part to set up a gank. A lot of laners simply expect the jungler to have a presence in their lane at all times, and if the laner dies, they're quick to blame the laner.

I'm going to give you some tips on how to pull off a successful gank (and what exactly a successful gank is). It's important for you, when you run into a laner who doesn't understand what he needs to do on his end, to communicate some simple, POLITE directions to him so that he can help you help him.

First and foremost, I think it's easy to get too wrapped up in defending a lane that's going to be lost no matter what you do as the jungler. If you go help top lane gank, and as soon as the enemy is back to the lane, top lane looks like it needs another gank, it may be better to focus on helping another lane, where the teammate in that lane is most likely a better player. If he is a better player, your end game will be better by you helping him get fed early. Ultimately, if your team has more successful ganks in lane X than the enemy team, then your team has no excuse for continuing to lose that lane and continuing to need help from you as the jungler.

But anyway, here's how you gank.

First, as WW, before level 6, you need a teammate with some form of CC (unless you roll with Exhaust). If your top lane is a Garen with Flash/Ghost, and you're a level 5 WW with Flash/Smite, going to top lane isn't really going to accomplish too much as the enemy can just run away. But plenty of other champions have CC, or run exhaust.

So here's what you do. First off, you need to find a lane that's gank-worthy. The enemy needs to be closer to your turret than he is to his own turret. And the closer to your turret, the better. It makes it harder for him to run away successfully. Once you find that player, run up and hide in the best available ganking bush near that lane. Ping the target (this is particularly helpful in 2v2 lanes so all 3 players are focusing the same target). Pinging makes sure your teammate knows you are there and ready to gank. If you go 1v1 the enemy, it doesn't really do much good. Let your teammate initiate (in most cases). He is typically closer to your team's turret and safer, AND it doesn't tip your hand letting the enemy know you're there for a gank. The enemy may meet your teammate's aggression with more aggression, which is good for you. Now that he's primarily worried about your teammate, run in and deal some damage. With Warwick, never forget to throw your W buff on your teammate so you both get AS bonus.

Now, how do you determine whether or not the gank was successful? Well, there are a lot of ways.

1) Did you kill someone?
2) Did you force an enemy to burn a summoner spell?
3) Did you force someone to go back to base?

If the answer to any of these three questions is yes, chances are the gank was actually quite successful. If you kill someone, it's pretty obvious.

If you simply forced the enemy to burn their Flash or Exhaust and your teammate did not, your teammate is at an advantage. He can play more aggressively than his opponent in the lane until his opponent's cooldown is done.

If you forced an enemy to go to base while your teammate didn't have to, your teammate ends up with a gold and experience advantage (and in some cases, it's enough time to finish off a turret).


What's most important in ganking? Do not die. Don't engage the enemy unless you have a clear advantage. Run up, sit in the bush, and wait till you are certain that your team has an advantage in this lane if you step out of the bush. It is better to waste some time in the bush and run away with no gank than it is to step out of the bush and perform a failed gank. Failed ganks set your team back really far.

At worst, your teammate's opposing laner is an extra kill ahead because he got to kill 2 people instead of just 1. At best, the enemy jungler is ahead of you because he's been collecting gold/XP killing jungle mobs while you ran up and tickled the enemy champion but took so much damage you had to return to base.

Never, ever, ever, ever, under any circumstance should you engage in a gank that you are not at least somewhat confident will be successful. There is absolutely nothing (short of intentional feeding) that any of the laners can do that is worse than a jungler performing a failed gank. A failed gank sets at least two people on your team back, and one person on the enemy team ahead twice as much as they should be.

I've seen many games lost where because early game a jungler made a poor 2v1 or 3v2 gank attempt and ended up feeding the enemy player 2 or 3 kills (where he would have had 0 kills, 0 deaths if the jungler didn't attempt to gank). Remember, for a successful gank, you need the help of your teammates just as much as they need you. So attempting a gank means they're committing to the attack just as much as you. They're following you because you're supposed to be sure it's a clear advantage. If you didn't show up for the gank, they would've played safer and farmed more.

So never, ever, ever attempt a gank unless you can confidently see a clear advantage for your team.


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RockLobster88

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Quote:
PogoPogoPogoPogo:
wall o text

This is helpful for Warwick. Really helpful. Thank you.

Quote:
FaerellG:
You still haven't explained what you are doing to "screw up". If you want pointers, you need to be specific.

I don't know what I'm screwing up. That's why I'm asking for help.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-24-2012

Quote:
RockLobster88:
This is helpful for Warwick. Really helpful. Even so, how should I initiate ganks? WW isn't the most powerful when it comes to those.

Yea, that's what the second wall of text is for.


The first post is pretty Warwick-specific. The second post pretty well applies to all champions.

Ultimately, THE single most important factor to being a good jungler is excellent map awareness. It takes a lot of practice to know when and where to be.


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