adc has to listen to support these days ?

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Slithy

Member

08-21-2012

The guy I was with wanted to spend all his life time supporting me from the brush. I actually didn't like playing too passive, but it's all his choice to play as he pleased. What dove me mad was that he left bot because I never listened to his plans which sounded impractical to me from the beginning ( my farm was good and 0 death at the point).

I'm not saying all supports are annoying control freak, but I just had a bad time playing with them too much already. I don't know why it's so hard for people to stop suggesting things when they never played the role. I thought everything should be ok as long as everyone's doing their roles and not screwing the entire team, why bother being a control freak ?


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Martyrofsand

Senior Member

08-22-2012

You don't seem to understand the purpose of the support being their for the ADC. It isn't just to give you wards look pretty and be your drone. They support is the one setting up field of vision, they are the ones able to most focus on harassing, and zoning. They are their to do everything possible to make it easier on your to farm and focus on farming. If they have a plan set up you really need to listen and/or follow them.

Now that isn't to say you are always going to be getting fed or every plan will always work out but in the end the support is doing everything they can to make your life easier, when you ignore them, or refuse to listen it can really cost your lane, yes your farm may be good with 200cs with no deaths or kills at 20 minutes, but the support is trying to help you end up with around 200cs with 2-4 kills, while keeping your opponents off minions and under fed. They can't do that if you are not willing to let them help you.


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Slithy

Member

08-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SacredMesa View Post
You don't seem to understand the purpose of the support being their for the ADC. It isn't just to give you wards look pretty and be your drone. They support is the one setting up field of vision, they are the ones able to most focus on harassing, and zoning. They are their to do everything possible to make it easier on your to farm and focus on farming. If they have a plan set up you really need to listen and/or follow them.

Now that isn't to say you are always going to be getting fed or every plan will always work out but in the end the support is doing everything they can to make your life easier, when you ignore them, or refuse to listen it can really cost your lane, yes your farm may be good with 200cs with no deaths or kills at 20 minutes, but the support is trying to help you end up with around 200cs with 2-4 kills, while keeping your opponents off minions and under fed. They can't do that if you are not willing to let them help you.
Which part exactly I didn't seem to understand ? As I said the support guy wanted to remain in the brush forever letting too many opportunities passing by. I had no problem with that, but he stop supporting me because I played aggressively yet still managed to stay alive.

I had positive experiences with supports who didn't talk much. Most of them just set up the kill and I followed them with little to no chatting. The talkative ones seem to spend more time whining, passing all opportunities for kills and never learn to respect different play styles (There're millions ways to win in normal). I have no problem listening to their whining. I just don't know why I have to listen to their plan whens they got no idea how adc really work.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

08-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Puppy Fury View Post
I try to strangle a carry who does this as the support. As the carry, you do need to be able to tell the difference between the support harassing and initiating, but if you miss a kill/double kill because you were farming, you need to go play a different role.

if i think that the kill can be gotten the i will do all that i can to get it but if they are like 80 percent hp and i know for a fact that the best that could happen is us both wasting summoners and getting low then i dont want to be the guy that loses more cs for the trade, not to mention that if there are so many minions that i think i should be farming them then why in gods name would in engage a fight were they have minion advantage. If my support engages high health targets who have minion advantage then i wont engage on that, i'll tell my support to back off from something they shouldnt have engaged in the first place.

Now its a different story if the jungler ganks ofc, if i have cc like an ashe arrow all engage and chase them down so that the kill happens but if it a pre 6 ww and i have no cc aka a gank that i think wont work then i wont allow this ww to make me lose cs, i'll tell him to back, if he doesnt listen then idc.


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DMPuffy

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slithy View Post
The guy I was with wanted to spend all his life time supporting me from the brush. I actually didn't like playing too passive, but it's all his choice to play as he pleased. What dove me mad was that he left bot because I never listened to his plans which sounded impractical to me from the beginning ( my farm was good and 0 death at the point).

I'm not saying all supports are annoying control freak, but I just had a bad time playing with them too much already. I don't know why it's so hard for people to stop suggesting things when they never played the role. I thought everything should be ok as long as everyone's doing their roles and not screwing the entire team, why bother being a control freak ?
Wow, I have never heard of someone complaining because someone was communicating and trying to work as a team. I would love to have a support that is a "control freak." I have NEVER gotten a support in solo queue that communicates any more than pinging, which you only know what they vaguely mean.


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Bigricky

Senior Member

08-23-2012

bot lane needs to perform as one, not as two separate players. There's nothing more awesome than when two people bot lane are on the same page. It's almost a free win if the opposing duo has bad teamwork.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

08-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigricky View Post
bot lane needs to perform as one, not as two separate players.
Pretty much this.

Another thing to consider...

In an early post, I compared the importance of minion farming versus kills. Yes, minion farming is super important. And when we look at just the gold revenue for one minion wave, it's worth more gold to the ADC to farm the wave (if you can last hit all 6) than to go for a single kill (a double kill is worth more gold than a single wave).

But there's something else to consider... getting a kill gives your support an assist. Now, your support either has 3/3 Mercenary or 1/1 Sage (more common). Either way, they're going to get a lot out of the assist. A single assist for the support can mean the difference in buying 2 wards the next time they go to base, or finishing a GP5 and buying 2 wards. Once they've built their first GP5, the ball is rolling. And getting their first GP5 before the enemy support can put them a very far way ahead of the enemy support.

Remember, as the ADC, you're kind of playing for two people in terms of gold and experience. If you're going to just farm minions under your own turret, you're individually getting a gold advantage over the enemy ADC. A single player on your team has a gold advantage over a single player on the enemy team.

If you work with your support to set up even just one kill, then you've doubled your team's lead as two players on your team have more gold AND experience than two players on the enemy team.

Yes, your solitary lead over the enemy ADC can snowball, but why not let your support snowball with you? With each kill, the next kill becomes easier. And if not, it's likely because the enemy jungler has had to come down to your lane. And if that happens, it means your other 2 lanes are safe, your jungler can definitely set up a 2v1 in either lane, or just go steal their jungle, or he can come down for a 3v3 in bottom.


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Jeanschyso

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Senior Member

08-23-2012

The ADC is that player the support has to babysit for 3/4 of the game. He's gotta help the support and jungler in shutting down the enemy carry. IF you go that, you can probably destroy the enemy late game... You gotta listen to your strategist though, yknow, the guy who looks at his minimap, doesn't have the luxury of being able to keep tunnel vision, and knows very well how much damage the enemy can out out and how much it takes to kill one of them, since he's probably been 1v2ing them for a long time while you weren't paying attention to his hard work and just CSed (that's what that support was doing it for after all)

Carries that don't followup need to go play jungle and learn how it feels to fail a gank due to someone farming creep


edit: your support is dependant on assists to buy those aura items that give you more lifesteal and tankyness


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KneeShot

Member

08-23-2012

first, supports could be mained adc before they go supports, never think supports are born to be supports

when a support giving suggestions, that means he/she sees something you cannot see, or know the limit of yours more.
if you are not going to help the support, don't expect supports do willing to help any incorporating teammates


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kmoose

Member

08-24-2012

Sounds like you just had one, or a few, bad experiences with supports. It's okay! Not everyone plays that way. Supports are there to give the adc an edge, with vision, zoning and engaging (when the time is right) the enemy. Some supports, especially if the player in question isn't familiar with the role, will not be accustomed to when is a good time to initiate and pick up some kills, and when it is best for your carry to hang back and farm. If you have a support who is being more aggressive/passive/what have you than you would like or are comfortable with, let them know in a calm and clear way.

However, keep in mind that setting up these opportunities is a part of the supports job, and if you don't let them know what you want from the lane, it is easy to get frustrated. The more open your communication is, the better your laning experience will be.

That being said, sometimes people are unhappy with the support role, or if anything doesn't go exactly how they want it to they will start playing that way. That is simply a player problem, and not something inherently wrong with the support role. Some people just play that way when frustrated, but leaving a lane is never acceptable. Recently I played a game as Kog'maw and my support chose sona at the last minute (had been nunu). Sona didn't ward, and we were ganked early on by the opposing jungler Alistar. Thanks to some descent playing from both of us (and my flash), we escaped to the tower with only around 1/3 health missing. However, as I hung back to farm/heal for a wave, sona didn't ping or say anything in chat, flashed into the brush (where it was obvious the enemy was hiding), died almost instantly, then got mad at me for 'giving up a double kill' when there was no way I could have got there in time. She then started complaining about her 'noob kog' and went mid, where Malzahar continually asked her to leave because she was splitting his exp.

^Sometimes players like this happen, just do your best, be civil, and try not to let it change your opinion of the entire role. We actually ended up winning that game thanks to a jungler who gave me some spectacular ganks solo bot while Sona started suiciding off baron. She started playing again once she realized we were winning our lanes.


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