[Champion Concept] - Echo, the spirit wisp (support)

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FelixKam

Senior Member

08-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by vats3 View Post
the thing is your ability isent counted with the 40% as that is counted before the skill is used while this is and extra cdr after the skin is used giving about 60% cdr total also the Q can be abused also these 2 abiltys character would easily make the best suport if not teir 1 ap carry in the game no mater how much cool down and mana uses she has im going to once again refence dota 2 because most the time alot of fan creations are like dota 2, Rubick (http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Rubick this is the only other champ i played in dota 2) has that Q as an ult and keep in mind normally in dota 2 heros are much stronger then champs just because thats how the game is set up
also keep in mind very few champs are ult reliant alot of champs can do alot of damage with just there basic ability
these ability they are just too powerful for the leuage
I also love Rubick, so much fun xD But in this case your fear is actually unwarranted. You see with Rubick, the low cost, for the actual stealing combined with the more powerful abilities in DOTA 2, and DOTA, made the ability much more powerful, especially since he could take in abilities like Tide's Ravage, and cast it faster than Tide himself, making a potential "perfect" initiation, the "perfectly" countered one etc... However with Echo here, the power is much more limited, partially since the cooldown of that ability isn't also refreshed upon re-copying. Likewise, Echo can'y hold onto the spell, making this a nerfed version, that is actually fairly balanced for League of Legends. I would add however, that Echo can't copy some spells that rely of energy, simply because Echo can't really pay the cost, unless an appropriate counter-measure is provided for such cases. Also put it in the wording that the ability stolen is treated like it's rank was the same as Echo's rank in the Q, rather than the Owner's just for balance, since it doesn't scale from the cooldown, or mana cost, so this would make someone actually put points into the ability to make it more useful. You could also have the tooltip display what spell would currently be stolen, just to make it more player friendly then Rubick from DOTA 2's ultimate (dat pre-game knowledge)...

And yes, while many champions aren't fully ultimate reliant, the ultimate is usually what makes a character, and gives them their appropriate role. That being said, some are also very reliant on their basic abilities. Out of curiousty what would happen if Echo stole one of Udyr's stances, or Sona's stances, would Echo gain the passive stance aura until the next activation as well?

I might review this later out of interest, if I find the time, no guarantees however.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DryRun

Senior Member

08-26-2012

FelixKam - thank you. Youve defended my ideas better then i could have. echoes steal is worse then every other spell in the game, it costs more, has higher cooldown. its just a way to give a support a lot of versatility. a copied spell is cast at echoes current Q level, so if a level 5 rammus powerball hits her, she can cast that same spell, (as long as nothing hits her ion the meantime) at whatever level her Q is at (it would just use the rammus animation). and you are right, abilities in LOL are not as powerfull, so stealing them is not as huge a deal, also champions that are not ult reliant are usually combo reliant, and stealign one spell cannot complete a combo. i just think that Q would be really really fun. and yes for sure, once you had a point in Q whatever spell hit you last, would become the Q spell on her HUD display. thanks for the look FelixKam post your champ on here for review returns!

and yes stolen abilities with passives stay with her until another spell is cast.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DryRun

Senior Member

08-26-2012

beware bear stance echo!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FelixKam

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DryRun View Post
FelixKam - thank you. Youve defended my ideas better then i could have. echoes steal is worse then every other spell in the game, it costs more, has higher cooldown. its just a way to give a support a lot of versatility. a copied spell is cast at echoes current Q level, so if a level 5 rammus powerball hits her, she can cast that same spell, (as long as nothing hits her ion the meantime) at whatever level her Q is at (it would just use the rammus animation). and you are right, abilities in LOL are not as powerfull, so stealing them is not as huge a deal, also champions that are not ult reliant are usually combo reliant, and stealign one spell cannot complete a combo. i just think that Q would be really really fun. and yes for sure, once you had a point in Q whatever spell hit you last, would become the Q spell on her HUD display. thanks for the look FelixKam post your champ on here for review returns!

and yes stolen abilities with passives stay with her until another spell is cast.
You're welcome, I am but a humble servant of the people! Meh, not really. Yeah the Q looks awesome, and is something I honestly like. Also I'm not defending this for review returns, I'm just doing it because that's what I felt like doing, lol. And I agree, fear that bear stance Echo O.o Maybe even a Seastone Trident Echo... And honestly speaking that ability alone, just opens up so many interesting combinations for a player, which alone makes me want to play Echo =D


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FelixKam

Senior Member

08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DryRun View Post
Echo, the spirit wisp

Lore
Amongst the highest mountain peaks on Runeterra exist hidden valleys seemingly untouched be time. Nestled into one such alcove lies a community of sprites. Daughters of Gods long forgotten, the sprites have existed in blissful ignorance of the world around them for time immortal. Echo was the youngest sprite in the community, and also the most adventurous. She alone of all the valleys inhabitants had ever scaled the shear cliffs and hazardous climbs to the craggy peaks above. Often she would sit alone on the ridge of some forlorn mountain and wonder what lay beyond.
It was during on of these trips that it happened, as Echo sat, day dreaming she noticed the skies growing dark. A terrible crash erupted from center of the valley. Echo raced home to find all her friends, indeed, everyone she had ever known possessed by madness. They attacked her on sight, and though they were but diminished husks of their former selves, there were hundreds of them. Even Echoes desperate pleas would not stop their relentless attacks and she was forced into ever greater lengths to defend herself.
Finally, after many hours as the fatigue threatened to overcome her, echo unleashed an earth shattering blast of all her remaining magic. Her last moments of consciousness were of the decimation of her family by her own hand. Ever vigilant against the misuse of magic, the summoners at the institute of war could not help but notice the cataclysmic release on the mountains that day. When the exploration party returned with Echoes drained body, she was nursed back to health within the League of Legends were she remains, the perfect place to piece together what happened to her home.
- "Naturally Everyone would like to know what happened to her family that day. However, i fear its likely to never be solved." - Singed, the Mad Chemist

Description
Echo is a dedicated support champion. She is designed to compliment bottom laning carries in both a passive and a more direct way. Also, she has good team fight presence both strengthening allies and pinning down enemies. Her Q gives her almost unlimited versatility. She should scale well throughout a game as well do to her growing passive effect, her ability to assist ADs bot with movement speed control, and later her powerful cool down buff for APs. Visually, Echo is a Goddess of swirling blues and white illuminated from the inside.

Stats

Damage 47 (+2.5 / per level)
Health 405 (+79 / per level)
Mana 375 (+45 / per level)
Move Speed 305
Armor 12 (+3.5 / per level)
Spell Block 30 (+0 / per level)
Health Regen 4.5 (+0.55 / per level)
Mana Regen 8 (+0.8 / per level)

Abilities

Passive - Magical - Echo is a creature of magic, and not being entirely of this world, she is not entirely affected by it. 10/20/30% of the damage taken by Echo is instead transferred to her mana pool (at levels 1/8/16). With zero mana, Echo takes full damage in Hp pool.
This lets echo get away with taking some damage while harassing in lane as she has no self heal like other supports. It also makes Philo stone an easy choice. Basically it goes well with the spirit theme and plays into Echos mana based gameplay.

Q - Echo - Echo mimics the last non ultimate ability that has struck her using her stats for damage calculations.
Costs - 110% of the abilities mana cost on the other champion
Cooldown equal to abilities cooldown (+10%) on other champion
This is a really interesting idea, it makes for unlimited fun in game. I think it will be kept in check by the fact that although it exactly mimics the last spell shes been targeted with it uses her stats, so it will almost certainly be less powerful then her opponents version. Although from time to time it will be silly fun like an AP build echo doing a Trynd spin for like 550 damage.

W - Reverberate - Echo casts a shield on ally or self that absorbs 80/120/160/200/240 (+0.5ap + 0.5% current mana) damage for up to 5 seconds. On cast the selected target has their most recently used non ultimate ability cool down lowered by 10/15/20/25/30% (cannot exceed 40% cap).
Costs - 50/60/70/80/90 mana - 23 / 21 / 19 / 17 / 15 second cooldown
This is a very strong support spell. Obviously the shield prevents allies from harm, but the CD reduction lets other, stronger players dish out their damage faster. It is balanced by 1, its own long cool down. 2, the mana cost on the player using it, no character can long sustain double casting their spells early game. 3, its low effect early game.

E - Ethereal Form - Echo slips into the ethereal plane for 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 seconds, during which time she gains 35% movement speed and ignores unit collision. Additionally, any allies Echo passed through gain 20% the movement boost, and any enemies are slowed by the same amount. At the end of the duration of the spell the quick dissipation of ethereal energy knocks up nearby surrounding enemies for 0.5 seconds. Echo refunds 65% of the mana cost for each champion she passes through. Deals damage equal to 10% (+2/2.2/2.3/2.4/2.5% max mana) of minions health that she passes through (max 400 damage to neutral monsters)
Costs - 80/90/100/110/120 mana. 14 second cooldown
This is a multipurpose utility spell. Consider all the possible uses. Escape, speed up allies chasing target, chase down and knock up fleeing target, in desperation suicide into pack of enemies chasing your low health allies applying minor buffs and slows along the way before the small Aoe knock up. Additionally, later in the game can farm waves effectively by swiping through them all, casting cooldown on self, then recasting this spell. Or by amassing over over 3600 mana

R - Mana Burst - Echo unleashes tendrils of mana at 3/4/5 nearby enemy champions who receive damage equal to 7% of Echos max mana and 0.35ap every second. Enemies affected are slowed by 15% (+5% per additional enemy effected) for up to three seconds. At the end of the duration, all enemies still tethered have their essences randomly swapped through Echoes magic, and find themselves at the end of a differrent tendril then they started.
Costs - 100/150/200 mana. 120 / 110 / 100 second cooldown.
This is a major disruption ult, i wanted there to be the same fear as when morgana comes charging into a teamfight. It has decent but not overly strong damage. Plus i think the swapping people around is disruptive and fun, in a normal fight you should mess up positioning, but theres a chance some games you will end up putting a tank where you wants to be, or helping someone escape. The skill would be in grabbing the right players and positioning yourself to do so. The swap would happen very quickly, virtually instantly so that the effect did not have the additional strength of delaying enemies escapes. In game it would look something like....the blue/white tendrils shoot out and enemies effected start to glow cracks of white and azure light escaping through their skins until eventual, at 3 seconds all enemies still attached are a glowing white sphere then when it all snaps back to normal your standing where you've been placed. On the screen of the target player the tendril you were going to end up at will start to blink faster and faster until it happens. The Aoe would be small, half the ranged of morganas both in initial reach and total length of tethers.

Please leave some feed back. this is a first draft changes and pictures to come.
please check out my other champions -
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...highlight=mira - A versatile jungler based a bit on Mina from Dracula
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...highlight=rymr - A quirky lightning mage that really wants to auto attack you
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...3#post28461233 - An animated body controlled by the ghosts of a slaughtered legion, an ad carry that can stop a charge in its tracks

will review for review
The review however is a different story xD That's the catch! Would it be okay if I listed this on my review-for-review index as an example of a review done by myself? The champion I would like you to review is ANY ONE of the following
The lore: I wonder what happened.... Definitely something that doesn't involve Singed, amirite?

Stats:
Damage: You could honestly increase the base a bit, it would help out early for harass, afterall auto attacks do actually do quite a bit of damage early game...
Health: Seems on the high health support side, but it's a fair amount.
Mana: I would recommend lowering the base a bit, but in turn increasing the per level gain. This is because, right now, she has a literal "shi-t ton" of mana at level 1, but progressively less as the game goes on, and to be honest, a better value would be about 270 + 55 per level. This way's it's a decent starting pool, and a decent gain per level, and also one that's within standard values....
Move speed: Could use a slight buff to 310 to help with positioning early on, but it's fine where it is.
Armour: It's fine, it's a high on the support scale but it's actually fine as it is.
Spell block: There's not spell block stat in League of Legends. I believe the stat you're looking for is Magic Resistance. But yeah, base 30 with no scaling is correct for a support so good job (you have no idea how many people get that wrong -_-).
Health Regen: Boost the base and you're fine. Try 5.5 as the base instead, it should help out with her laning phase a bit (less reliance on the innate).
Mana Regen: I understand that the high values are to make up for the innate draining the shield, but it's still too high in my opinion, so long as she plays safely like a proper support, with this kind of regen, she could spam all day long.... As a solution I would suggest a slight rework to the innate, but if you do keep it as it is, then I suppose this could work....

Innate: For the percentage increase, I would actually suggest making it a static amount, say 15%? That ways it's less punishing late game on your mana pool, but still a good defense early, mid, and late game to have.

Q: Well you already know how I feel about this. I would maybe make the cooldown, and cost % decrease with ranks, but it's still good. You'll need a conversion system for energy into mana system though. On the other hand, you could simply set limits to what it could copy instead.

W: 0.5% current mana, is next to nothing in terms of scaling (average of 3'000 mana by end game for a moderately mana intensive build so even with a full pool this would equate to 15 which is nothing....), try 7.5% of maximum mana instead (maximum mana because it;s easier to work with than current mana, due to the fluctuations which would need to be accounted for. 5% would make it a decent 225 instead, which combined with the base and AP ratio, makes it decent). A free 30% cooldown reduction could make for some very powerful combinations, but I think the limit (40% cdr standard limit) makes it more or less balanced. However since Echo is a support, I would suggest making it a static 20% since a support is focused in the laning phase.... Also maybe make the mana cost static as well, perhaps 80 mana?

E: Damn.... that's like a miniature ghost every 14 seconds.... This could be very, very useful indeed.... It's a very powerful spell, with a lot of utility, and personally I think the damage part, combined with the knock up just makes it a bit too useful of an initiation, so maybe getting rid of the damage part could work out. Unless it damages minions exclusively, in which case it's fine. However the mana scaling needs to be reworked, try +% for every # mana (typical form of scaling for % health based abilities) instead of a percentage of the max mana. Also the damage should scale with rank, just saying... However the movement speed boosts should scale with rank as well, with a high base though (makes it more attractive to put ranks into, while maintaining it's use as a supporting skill).

R: I would suggest making the number of affected champions a static 5 maximum. Just helps to make it useful always. The 7% mana ratio is actually 21% ratio after the three seconds right? Using the previous 3000 mana example, that's 630 damage, pretty decent and with the 35% AP ratio, even better. But you're right the displacement is the main effect. Seems very powerful, like Amumu's ultimate. However the range in my opinion is too short, I would suggest making the tether range equal to Morgana's and the leash the same, rather than one half.

Nice job, overall.

Good luck with current, and future endeavours!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DryRun

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Hey, great review, this will definitely help give her a shake down and a clean up. you have great points about supports roles during laning. You caught a bunch of numbers that need changing. thanks again.

spell block, i dont know why, but thats what riot calls it in all their champion infos....so i just stay with it.

if i change the innate i will change the mana regen, her movement speed is slow, cause the move boost in E, so while it is a powerful MS buff, it is balanced by terrible natural MS. my hope there was to make it feel like when you used it, that was your moment, its a very decisive moment...either you are going in, or getting out. cause you cant do either without it. i think the duration is short enough, it should be like leona using her Q, but you can aim it, and instead of instant, you have to travel, but you gain a brief knock up, instead of very brief immobilize. the 0.5% was just ment to be 5%, im so used to putting AP scales, the 0. is so natural. the Q might get the 110% reduced per level to 100% at five to make late game easier.

thanks! i will catch all your champions, just give me time im working 12 hour midnights, dont get a lot of leisure time.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FelixKam

Senior Member

08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DryRun View Post
Hey, great review, this will definitely help give her a shake down and a clean up. you have great points about supports roles during laning. You caught a bunch of numbers that need changing. thanks again.

spell block, i dont know why, but thats what riot calls it in all their champion infos....so i just stay with it.

if i change the innate i will change the mana regen, her movement speed is slow, cause the move boost in E, so while it is a powerful MS buff, it is balanced by terrible natural MS. my hope there was to make it feel like when you used it, that was your moment, its a very decisive moment...either you are going in, or getting out. cause you cant do either without it. i think the duration is short enough, it should be like leona using her Q, but you can aim it, and instead of instant, you have to travel, but you gain a brief knock up, instead of very brief immobilize. the 0.5% was just ment to be 5%, im so used to putting AP scales, the 0. is so natural. the Q might get the 110% reduced per level to 100% at five to make late game easier.

thanks! i will catch all your champions, just give me time im working 12 hour midnights, dont get a lot of leisure time.
Actually for the E) I would suggest a manual trigger for the knock-up after say 1 second of activation? Might make it better, due to the increased control. Also for the reviews just do one of the champions. That's all I desire if you want to do so. Do more and I'll feel indebted to you, and I always repay my debts.... Also about the Spell Block stuff, look in the game, it's actually called Magic Resistance. Riot just doesn't update the actual champion info's on their site that often, if at all....


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Neartheninjaz

Member

08-31-2012

seems to be a lot op-ness going on with the champ..


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DryRun

Senior Member

09-01-2012

some specific comments would be much appreciated Neartheninjaz. unless you mean every single stat, number, and duration is too long. thanks for stopping by though.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kilar

Senior Member

09-01-2012

I really like the echo ability the fact you can use someone elses ability against them is a really good idea. Also I like the ultimate idea you have but I would say instead of +5% per enemy champion effected -5% you have the potential of 35 or 40% and that seems too high but just my opinion. Great concept and check out mine if you get the chance id like to know what you think. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2500569